What has NYS DEC done to Fall Turkey Hunting?

gblrsrst · Post by **gblrsrst** » October 4th, 2015, 8:13 am

DNR has really put the screws to fall turkeydoggin. Damn politics!!

What did they do?

Hal asked this Question in another thread on another Thread and I'll answer it here.

NYS DEC took away 36 Days of our Fall Season! Along with that they dropped the bag limit in our area from Two of either sex to one. Leaving us with a Two Week season starting Oct 17th ending October 31st. FUNNY THING IS there was a structured season through out areas of the State that ALREADY had two week seasons and 1 bird bags in Turkey Number sensitive areas before this.

I Could have lived with a Bag Reduction and Maybe a Month Long Season. But they choose to Limit the whole State and make Three Times to hunt across the State. Oct 1 -14th in the Northern part, Oct 17th -31st Southern Part and some part of November and December on Long Island! ONE BIRD LIMIT for Whole State!

The turkey population has dropped in NYS over the last 10 years or so from an all time high in the late 90's/early 2000's. Now -- when I say an all time high I mean that you could set on watch in the fall and see over 100 Turkeys in a flock!

I have a Video of Turkeys on March 17th. of 1996 with 382 Turkeys in the SAME FIELD . Now this was a farm in Delaware County and they congregated there for the Hot Lunch Program! I NEVER Spring Hunted there or Fall Turkey Dog hunted there either! But, We did fall hunt there a couple of times and it was UNBELIEVABLE! We had Coyotes Breaking Flocks and Turkeys ALL OVER THE PLACE!

DO WE NEED FLOCKS OF 100 + Birds in Normal Fall Situations? Or 300 Plus in the winter feeding situations? I THINK NOT!

Over the past 7 years or so the weather in the Months of May and even June has/had not been FRIENDLY to Turkey Brooding and the numbers are down! Enough people complained that the Department of Environment Conservation talked and sent out Questioners to groups like the NWTF and Bow Hunters and a selected number of Turkey permit holders asking what they wanted! Now the questions usually start with Do You Want More Turkeys? WELL DUH!!!!!!

NO we want FEWER!!!! What do you think the answer will be? So this gets the Answers swayed in the way they want them to go! Think about the surveys that have went out on Deer AR .. Do you want Bigger, better Bucks? Same Premise!!!

One of the BIGGEST Problems is that only a SMALL percentage of people answer these surveys so they go to the Turkey Group and talk with them. I have it from a leader in the State NWTF that said they supported the proposed change but were SURPRISED the the State went to the EXTREME END of the plan and Imposed it on the entire state!

I have been to meetings on this and question the EXTREME MEASURES TAKEN! The fact is that I got a TRUE ANSWER at one from a DEC Official! He stated that," WE CAN'T DO MUCH ABOUT THE WEATHER!, WE ARE LIMITED ON THE HABITAT CONTROL!, ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS CONTROL TE FALL SEASON!" I thanked him for his Candor and said I only had ONE QUESTION FOR THE WHOLE ROOM!

HOW MANY OF THE 20 OF US HERE ARE FALL TURKEY HUNTERS? 2 HANDS BESIDES MINE WERE RAISED!!! My last Statement was, "IS 3 OUT OF 20 GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?"

BTW -- Any Meeting I have gone to the Ratio of Fall Turkey Hunters has been the SAME!

Hopefully the weather in May and June will improve and our Brood Success will improve and the Flocks will come back letting the DEC return us some of our Season! As the WEATHER is the Biggest Factor in Turkey Numbers -- Or that is what we have always been told!

BTW -- YES, I'M AN OPTIMIST!

IT'S EASY TO GIVE AWAY WHAT YOU DON'T USE!!!!!!

I AM STRESSING THE FACT that we as Hunter/Sportsmen have to Answer the surveys that our DNR's send out (BUT READ THEM CAREFULLY!) so that they can have an accurate picture of what is out there before we GIVE AWAY OUR HUNTING RIGHTS!

WoodMoose · Post by **WoodMoose** » October 4th, 2015, 9:27 am

good luck getting it modified some,,,,they got rid of the NC winter season a few years ago but I never had a chance to avail myself of it due to location (it was only the norther couple of counties)

hope to get some fall turkey chasing in this year,,,

Grumpy · Post by **Grumpy** » October 4th, 2015, 10:21 am

Montana for the most part has a one tag a year turkey season. I would think most turkeys are killed in the spring season which is about 5 weeks long.
Our fall season for those that hunt in the fall, and I think it would be very few hunters, is 4 months long. Yup, opens Sept.1 and runs until Jan. 1, hens are also shootable in the fall season. What a joke, the ranch I hunt has at least 3 flocks of turkeys with 100 plus birds to a flock, as soon as a disease comes along I am sure with so many birds in such a small area there will be near 100 % wipeout . Most of the Bear Paw Mountains just south of the Canadian border could sustain a 2 bird season in the spring, toms and jakes only. The summer of 2014 the wife of the ranch owner told me she had about 79 turkeys on her front lawn one morning. Yupper she tried to count them, she said there were 9 hens and the rest were chicks. Our fish and game clowns are just as messed up as every other state.

guesswho · Post by **guesswho** » October 4th, 2015, 10:48 am

gblrsrst wrote:As the WEATHER is the Biggest Factor in Turkey Numbers -- Or that is what we have always been told!

I haven't fall hunted in years due to no season down South, and I don't have enough of a desire to head North for a fall hunt. But I still feel for the fall hunters in the areas of these drastic changes.

I do have a thought that some probably haven't considered. I agree weather plays a big role in next years turkey numbers. But I think there may be another increasing and more steady impact. I may be way off, but here's my thoughts. I can remember back in the 60's, 70's and even 80's when you hardly ever saw a spring turkey hunter, and fall hunters were almost non-existent. At least in the deep South. Then along came TV Hunting shows, the internet, The NWTF, and message boards etc. Then all of a sudden the number of spring hunters started to rise at a rapid pace and continues to this day. Could it be that the same is happening with fall hunters now. Take, say 10% of spring hunters actually fall hunt and a population could withstand a long fall season and higher bag limits. That number rises to 20, 30% or even more and the population can really take a hit. I wonder if the increase in fall hunters are having a significant negative impact on the populations. And the DNR recognizes this and has started to experiment with the length and bag limits of the fall season. I figure they would start on the extreme safe side (short season, low limits) and increase these once they figured out what the population can withstand, along with the weathers average impact. I have noticed a big increase in talk about fall turkey hunting on these message boards and other places in the last few years. Opinions? Would you support a gobblers only fall to get back the 30+ days and a two bird limit?

gblrsrst · Post by **gblrsrst** » October 4th, 2015, 12:15 pm

guesswho wrote:
gblrsrst wrote:As the WEATHER is the Biggest Factor in Turkey Numbers -- Or that is what we have always been told!
I haven't fall hunted in years due to no season down South, and I don't have enough of a desire to head North for a fall hunt. But I still feel for the fall hunters in the areas of these drastic changes.

I do have a thought that some probably haven't considered. I agree weather plays a big role in next years turkey numbers. But I think there may be another increasing and more steady impact. I may be way off, but here's my thoughts. I can remember back in the 60's, 70's and even 80's when you hardly ever saw a spring turkey hunter, and fall hunters were almost non-existent. At least in the deep South. Then along came TV Hunting shows, the internet, The NWTF, and message boards etc. Then all of a sudden the number of spring hunters started to rise at a rapid pace and continues to this day. Could it be that the same is happening with fall hunters now. Take, say 10% of spring hunters actually fall hunt and a population could withstand a long fall season and higher bag limits. That number rises to 20, 30% or even more and the population can really take a hit. I wonder if the increase in fall hunters are having a significant negative impact on the populations. And the DNR recognizes this and has started to experiment with the length and bag limits of the fall season. I figure they would start on the extreme safe side (short season, low limits) and increase these once they figured out what the population can withstand, along with the weathers average impact. I have noticed a big increase in talk about fall turkey hunting on these message boards and other places in the last few years. Opinions? Would you support a gobblers only fall to get back the 30+ days and a two bird limit?

Good Post!

I have found that the Fall Hunters at any meeting I have been at is between 10 and 15%. This is even what the percentage is in our 200 member Gun Club. So i really do not think the fall take is a Major cause of the downfall.

In NYS there is a season on Yotes, October - April, and they are NUMEROUS in areas. There is also talk of Avian Pox! But - It usually is , "My Brother-in-law works with someone who shot a sick turkey or that kind of proof! Then we have the ones that say the FISHER is to Blame! I still think the biggest reason is the Weather!

If Fall Hunting Pressure was the reason -- WE WOULD HAVE NO TURKEYS AT GOBBLER'S ROOST!

As to Gobblers Only in the fall. Believe me it has been brought up and it gets VOTED DOWN INSTANTLY as they want to make taking a Bird Easy!

POOR HUNTERS!

They stated in their reasons for the Short Season is that the average Fall Turkey Hunter only spends 5-7 days in the woods anyhow!

WELL--- I LIKED HAVING OVER 40 DAYS TO CHOOSE!

There is still a Study that will end in 2016/17 and I can only keep pushing for the REAL NUMBERS of turkeys to come out!

OH -- BTW -- I almost got into a FIGHT at one meeting when this guy gave his reason for the Down fall in the Turkey numbers!!!

WAIT....... Are you setting down? INCIDENTAL BOW KILLS! OIY! VEY!!!!

guesswho · Post by **guesswho** » October 4th, 2015, 12:35 pm

Incidental Bow kills? Dang deer bow hunters

hawglips · Post by **hawglips** » October 4th, 2015, 8:51 pm

guesswho wrote: I can remember back in the 60's, 70's and even 80's when you hardly ever saw a spring turkey hunter, and fall hunters were almost non-existent. At least in the deep South. Then along came TV Hunting shows, the internet, The NWTF, and message boards etc. Then all of a sudden the number of spring hunters started to rise at a rapid pace and continues to this day. Could it be that the same is happening with fall hunters now. Take, say 10% of spring hunters actually fall hunt and a population could withstand a long fall season and higher bag limits. That number rises to 20, 30% or even more and the population can really take a hit. I wonder if the increase in fall hunters are having a significant negative impact on the populations. And the DNR recognizes this and has started to experiment with the length and bag limits of the fall season. I figure they would start on the extreme safe side (short season, low limits) and increase these once they figured out what the population can withstand, along with the weathers average impact. I have noticed a big increase in talk about fall turkey hunting on these message boards and other places in the last few years. Opinions? Would you support a gobblers only fall to get back the 30+ days and a two bird limit?

I am a proponent of a different method to cut down on the number of turkeys killed and numbers of hunters in the woods, if that is indeed the concern. My solution would be to make people pay more for turkey tags. I wouldn't like it for me personally, but I think it makes better sense if more turkeys and better quality hunting experience is the goal.

hawglips · Post by **hawglips** » October 4th, 2015, 8:52 pm

guesswho wrote:Incidental Bow kills? Dang deer bow hunters

Believe it or not, VA just changed their turkey regs to ENCOURAGE incidental either sex turkey kills by deer hunters. Blows my mind, but they did it. Unfathomable but true.

turkey_slayer · Post by **turkey_slayer** » October 4th, 2015, 11:52 pm

hawglips wrote:
guesswho wrote:Incidental Bow kills? Dang deer bow hunters
Believe it or not, VA just changed their turkey regs to ENCOURAGE incidental either sex turkey kills by deer hunters. Blows my mind, but they did it. Unfathomable but true.

Dang I thought you was joking but just checked the regs. Looks like they've went back to the old way. Probably why we have so many hens now. Kept deer hunters from shooting them. On a side note, I seen 4 flocks last Sunday. All hens and poults and above 4000 feet. All were the size of a small chicken except one hen had 2 that were no bigger than a grouse. Never seen them that small this late. Been in the 40s past several days with tons of rain. Not unusual to have snow up there in October. Hopefully they will grow quickly.

Wolframfan · Post by **Wolframfan** » October 8th, 2015, 8:30 am

He said, "incidental bow kills". LMAO!!!

Only in NY...

Gobbler · Post by **Gobbler** » October 8th, 2015, 11:18 am

jsay44 wrote:He said, "incidental bow kills". LMAO!!!

Only in NY...

Thats the term I use when I actually hit something.

vaturkey · Post by **vaturkey** » October 8th, 2015, 4:48 pm

hawglips wrote:
guesswho wrote:Incidental Bow kills? Dang deer bow hunters
Believe it or not, VA just changed their turkey regs to ENCOURAGE incidental either sex turkey kills by deer hunters. Blows my mind, but they did it. Unfathomable but true.

Hey Hal

Where did you see that in the turkey regs ? Thanks Ricky

hawglips · Post by **hawglips** » October 9th, 2015, 6:56 am

vaturkey wrote:
hawglips wrote:
guesswho wrote:Incidental Bow kills? Dang deer bow hunters
Believe it or not, VA just changed their turkey regs to ENCOURAGE incidental either sex turkey kills by deer hunters. Blows my mind, but they did it. Unfathomable but true.
Hey Hal

Where did you see that in the turkey regs ? Thanks Ricky

It's in the management plan, which was adopted. Go to page 58 for the goal of increasing the number of turkeys killed by bored deer hunters.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/t ... t-plan.pdf

vaturkey · Post by **vaturkey** » October 9th, 2015, 7:52 am

Thanks Hal

Wolframfan · Post by **Wolframfan** » October 11th, 2015, 8:23 am

I don't consider that "Value Statement" very valuable to turkey hunters

Post by **HunterGKS** » October 11th, 2015, 9:46 am

Ron, As you I talked about the other day, trying to get something like this changed back to the way it was, even with proof, is like pulling teeth from a jackass, aka, politician.

Never saw a turkey when we lived on LI except in the meat market close to the smoked eels.

Turkinator · Post by **Turkinator** » October 11th, 2015, 3:50 pm

Gobbler wrote:
jsay44 wrote:He said, "incidental bow kills". LMAO!!!

Only in NY...

Thats the term I use when I actually hit something.

I just spit milo's tea through my nose!

Gobbler Nation