410?

A discussion about Turkey guns, rifles, black powder, handguns, chokes, cleaning, and accessories.
old dog
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410?

Post by old dog »

I'll be honest in that I haven't turkey hunted since 2008, hanging them up after a death in the family. I sold my Turkey Slayer and BPS thinking I was done. The fires have rekindled and I'm looking for another gun. I was really leaning towards the new Browning BPS, this time in a 20 gauge maybe. Not sure if it is too light though. However, I keep seeing 410s talked about. Is this something new? Are they adequate. I'm 65 and a bit beat up and the idea of a lighter thump on these old bones sounds good but a 410? I thought I was going to be undergunned with a 20. Ideas?
trkykilr
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Re: 410?

Post by trkykilr »

If you are OK not shooting a bird past 45 yards, a .410 is all you need.
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howl
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Re: 410?

Post by howl »

.410 requires a little more careful aim, but you won't give up anything else to a 12ga with lead shot. The ultralight ~3.5# .410s kick about like a 30/06. Heavier ones kick less.

If you handload TSS you can make gauge irrelevant.
LAturkey
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Re: 410?

Post by LAturkey »

I have a H&R single shot 410 that’s a 40 to maybe 45 yard gun all day long. The recoil is very light although it is a little heavier than some of the other 410s out there it’s still lighter than any 12 and most 20’s. If you want less recoil you need a heavier gun to soak it up a little. Some of the really light ones I’ve shot have a little thump but nothing crazy.
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GLS
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Re: 410?

Post by GLS »

A 3.25 lb. .410 shooting a 7/8 oz. load at 1050 fps has a calculated recoil of 28 ft. lbs. A 5 lb. .410 shooting the same load is about 18 ft. lbs. of calculated recoil. A 20 ga. shooting 1 5/8 oz ( a common TSS load) has calculated recoil of approximately 42 ft. pounds. The lightest .410 shooting the heaviest load is mild in comparison to what folks are shooting out of 12 and 20 gauges, lead, Hevi or TSS loads. The report of a .410 sounds like a screen door slamming in the woods in comparison to other gauges. Gil
LAturkey
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Re: 410?

Post by LAturkey »

I do agree it’s a lot better on the ears.
va longbeard
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Re: 410?

Post by va longbeard »

For a single shot and for the money its tough to beat the stevens 301 turkey its already got a rail mounted to the barrel for red dots and comes with an extended choke. Very solid gun for around 170 dollars and I really like mine.

Cant comment on the tristar viper G2 but I got one arriving tomorrow, finally found the pistol grip model in mossy oak I had been looking for. It gets great reviews also, will probably have to get a comp n choke to get good patterns from what I have heard.

Having just broke a shoulder I have jumped on the 410 bandwagon myself.
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Hoobilly
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Re: 410?

Post by Hoobilly »

for the money buy a moss berg 410 pump or a 870. cut barrel down to 22" and have it threaded for chokes and the IndianCreek tubes are coming this fall!
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turkeybuster
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Re: 410?

Post by turkeybuster »

Buy a mossberg 410 .....500. Out of the box with a full it will work just fine,slap on a red dot,ff,,,,,,,tss ,,,,,go hunt.
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Turkinator
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Re: 410?

Post by Turkinator »

hoobilly wrote: June 30th, 2019, 2:17 pm for the money buy a moss berg 410 pump or a 870. cut barrel down to 22" and have it threaded for chokes and the IndianCreek tubes are coming this fall!
What thread pattern?
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Hoobilly
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Re: 410?

Post by Hoobilly »

Turkinator wrote: June 30th, 2019, 10:26 pm
hoobilly wrote: June 30th, 2019, 2:17 pm for the money buy a moss berg 410 pump or a 870. cut barrel down to 22" and have it threaded for chokes and the IndianCreek tubes are coming this fall!
What thread pattern?
Invector plus! for that matter standard invector is about as nice
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2Shooter
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Re: 410?

Post by 2Shooter »

This is a pattern that my 4.25 lb ATI Cavalry o/u did at 50 yards.
366AF0A7-583C-4FF2-9D7F-020D92EAD4B8.jpeg
2023A013-DEE7-4CF2-9F94-22CE57D3F852.jpeg
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Hoobilly
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Re: 410?

Post by Hoobilly »

2Shooter wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:44 pm This is a pattern that my 4.25 lb ATI Cavalry o/u did at 50 yards.366AF0A7-583C-4FF2-9D7F-020D92EAD4B8.jpeg2023A013-DEE7-4CF2-9F94-22CE57D3F852.jpeg
doesn't get much better!
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Southern Sportsman
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Re: 410?

Post by Southern Sportsman »

old dog wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:46 am I'll be honest in that I haven't turkey hunted since 2008, hanging them up after a death in the family. I sold my Turkey Slayer and BPS thinking I was done. The fires have rekindled and I'm looking for another gun. I was really leaning towards the new Browning BPS, this time in a 20 gauge maybe. Not sure if it is too light though. However, I keep seeing 410s talked about. Is this something new? Are they adequate. I'm 65 and a bit beat up and the idea of a lighter thump on these old bones sounds good but a 410? I thought I was going to be undergunned with a 20. Ideas?
If you haven’t turkey hunted since 2008 you probably haven’t followed the advent of TSS. So yes, the legit .410 turkey gun is a relatively new development. If I was buying one gun to turkey hunt with, I’d go 20. But hunting with a .410 is a hell of a lot of fun.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
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Re: 410?

Post by 2Shooter »

hoobilly wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:53 pm
2Shooter wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:44 pm This is a pattern that my 4.25 lb ATI Cavalry o/u did at 50 yards.366AF0A7-583C-4FF2-9D7F-020D92EAD4B8.jpeg2023A013-DEE7-4CF2-9F94-22CE57D3F852.jpeg
doesn't get much better!
Thanks buddy! I see this gun out of all of my turkey guns being the one that I carry all the time as I get older! I’m 55 now, and don’t like getting the crap kicked out of me now. This gun has about the right weight, and balance for a .410. Between the wife, and I we have seven .410 turkey guns, and this one has everything I need in a turkey gun. I try not to shoot a gobbler over 40 yards, but this one will go to 55 yards, and stay around 100 in the 10” with tss 9.5 shot.
old dog
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Re: 410?

Post by old dog »

Southern Sportsman wrote: July 1st, 2019, 2:10 am
old dog wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:46 am I'll be honest in that I haven't turkey hunted since 2008, hanging them up after a death in the family. I sold my Turkey Slayer and BPS thinking I was done. The fires have rekindled and I'm looking for another gun. I was really leaning towards the new Browning BPS, this time in a 20 gauge maybe. Not sure if it is too light though. However, I keep seeing 410s talked about. Is this something new? Are they adequate. I'm 65 and a bit beat up and the idea of a lighter thump on these old bones sounds good but a 410? I thought I was going to be undergunned with a 20. Ideas?
If you haven’t turkey hunted since 2008 you probably haven’t followed the advent of TSS. So yes, the legit .410 turkey gun is a relatively new development. If I was buying one gun to turkey hunt with, I’d go 20. But hunting with a .410 is a hell of a lot of fun.
That was to be my next question. TSS? Obviously a newer shotshell? What little I've read about them, they seem to have brought turkey hunting to the next level. I like the idea of a 20 gauge also. I remember my buds went to 10 gauges back in the 90s and I thought overkill. Older and wiser now, I want to feel as good walking out of the springs woods as I did walking in. lol
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kythunter
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Re: 410?

Post by kythunter »

2Shooter wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:44 pm This is a pattern that my 4.25 lb ATI Cavalry o/u did at 50 yards.366AF0A7-583C-4FF2-9D7F-020D92EAD4B8.jpeg2023A013-DEE7-4CF2-9F94-22CE57D3F852.jpeg
Very nice 50 yard pattern 2Shooter.
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Southern Sportsman
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Re: 410?

Post by Southern Sportsman »

old dog wrote: July 1st, 2019, 6:58 am
Southern Sportsman wrote: July 1st, 2019, 2:10 am
old dog wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:46 am I'll be honest in that I haven't turkey hunted since 2008, hanging them up after a death in the family. I sold my Turkey Slayer and BPS thinking I was done. The fires have rekindled and I'm looking for another gun. I was really leaning towards the new Browning BPS, this time in a 20 gauge maybe. Not sure if it is too light though. However, I keep seeing 410s talked about. Is this something new? Are they adequate. I'm 65 and a bit beat up and the idea of a lighter thump on these old bones sounds good but a 410? I thought I was going to be undergunned with a 20. Ideas?
If you haven’t turkey hunted since 2008 you probably haven’t followed the advent of TSS. So yes, the legit .410 turkey gun is a relatively new development. If I was buying one gun to turkey hunt with, I’d go 20. But hunting with a .410 is a hell of a lot of fun.
That was to be my next question. TSS? Obviously a newer shotshell? What little I've read about them, they seem to have brought turkey hunting to the next level. I like the idea of a 20 gauge also. I remember my buds went to 10 gauges back in the 90s and I thought overkill. Older and wiser now, I want to feel as good walking out of the springs woods as I did walking in. lol
Yep. TSS refers to the shot material, which is high density (18g/cc or grams per cubic centimeter) tungsten. You’ll have some sticker shock when you see the prices, but pretty much everyone here will confirm it’s worth it. Especially to facilitate hunting with a smaller gauge gun. The higher density allows you to shoot much smaller shot sizes (9s, 9 1/2s, or even 10 shot in a .410). Those pellets will still be lethal well past turkey distances (9s are lethal out to ~75 yards), but because they are so small you can fit a ton of them in a shell. (360+ per oz of 9s). So your payload actually has more pellets than a traditional lead load from a 12 gauge or 10 gauge.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
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GLS
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Re: 410?

Post by GLS »

As far as 20 gauge goes, a lot of hunters have gone with youth models for size and weight. A Mossy Super Bantam in 20 ga. is 5.25 lbs, comes camoed with sling mounts and drilled and tapped for optics. The most popular choice seems to be the 870. It's heavier than the Super Bantam. As for autos, there are choices that won't break the bank and are relatively light. As for pumps, you can buy both a 20 and .410 Mossy for between a third and a half of what a new SBE costs in 12. Most of us here that use TSS started handloading as it was the only way to obtain the ammo. Take a look at the "stickies" in the handloading section and there is a set of tutorials on handloading. There are several sellers of the shot who will provide tested recipes or you can buy loaded shells from several sources. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. In 20 ga., a popular load is 1 5/8 oz although some like more shot, others less shot. In .410, 13/16 to 7/8 oz. are the two common payloads. While some folks are content to shoot off the bead, others prefer red dots. Aged eyeballs (mine) suffer from being near sighted and have difficulty in low light with rifle sights or beads. The patterns are tight and precision aiming is necessary. Red dots cure a lot of ills. The most popular red dot is the Burris Fast Fire III. I bought one delivered last month for $184 for a project gun. NIB and guaranteed by Burris for life. Burris's reputation for customer service is legendary. If you are thinking of next season, now is the time to do so. You are asking the right questions. The closer next season approaches, equipment and resources dry-up during the pre-season scramble to get ready. :D
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Re: 410?

Post by 2Shooter »

kythunter wrote: July 1st, 2019, 8:40 am
2Shooter wrote: June 30th, 2019, 11:44 pm This is a pattern that my 4.25 lb ATI Cavalry o/u did at 50 yards.366AF0A7-583C-4FF2-9D7F-020D92EAD4B8.jpeg2023A013-DEE7-4CF2-9F94-22CE57D3F852.jpeg
Very nice 50 yard pattern 2Shooter.
Thank you Sir
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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: 410?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

The tungsten shells have really increased the options for turkey hunters since you last hunted them. If you want the 20 gauge BPS for purposes other than turkey hunting, you can load your own shells down to whatever level you want. A one ounce 20 gauge load in the BPS would be very low recoil, but still plenty effective. You can make almost any shotgun into an effective turkey gun these days, so buy whatever gun you want and then use the appropriate shells for your purpose. Good luck choosing.
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Southern Sportsman
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Re: 410?

Post by Southern Sportsman »

One issue I have found with the .410 is that some places still don’t allow them for turkeys. Fortunately TN allows them in general, but two of my favorite public areas in TN still have specific regulating requiring 20 gauge or larger.

Keep that in mind while mulling your options.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly
old dog
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Re: 410?

Post by old dog »

I'd like to thank everyone for their input. Sure helped an old guy who fell behind years ago. I cannot believe how much has changed since 08. Chances are I will end up with a 20 gauge BPS just in case I decide to hunt small game again also. Thanks again to all.
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Re: 410?

Post by GLS »

The BPS 20 ga. could be the heaviest 20 ga. pump made. The current Ithaca TurkeySlayer 20 is also heavy, about the same weight. The BPS specs for field, wooden stock, states 7 lbs. 1 oz or the same weight as a Benelli SBE or 870 SuperMag both in 12. For my purposes, buying a gun that carries like a 12 and shoots like a 20 isn't in my future. YMMV.
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Re: 410?

Post by Hoobilly »

GLS wrote: July 1st, 2019, 6:37 pm The BPS 20 ga. could be the heaviest 20 ga. pump made. The current Ithaca TurkeySlayer 20 is also heavy, about the same weight. The BPS specs for field, wooden stock, states 7 lbs. 1 oz or the same weight as a Benelli SBE or 870 SuperMag both in 12. For my purposes, buying a gun that carries like a 12 and shoots like a 20 isn't in my future. YMMV.
My ithaca 12 weights 7.1 with a sling. Not overly heavy
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