Jakes

Turkey hunting tips and tricks that have worked and can help others.
swampchicken
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Re: Jakes

Post by swampchicken » March 14th, 2016, 9:13 pm

pedro wrote:
ICDEDTURKES wrote:
BuckyT wrote:I've killed a few over the years. I don't target them specifically. I'm not going to say people can't shoot jakes simply because I don't like to shoot them. Seems pretty selfish to me. There is really no data absolutely proving passing jakes promotes a massive increase in gobbler numbers the following year.

If you see a group of 6 jakes, the odds are usually half of them will die from something else beside lead or TSS poisoning before the season opens the following year. Sure if you don't kill all 6 of them you'll probably ensure that 1 or 2 of them make it. Maybe.

I saw a group of 13 jakes one season. It was the next to the last day of the season. The following season I returned thinking the woods would be filled with gobblers....

Wrong... Heard only 3 or so birds gobble on that piece of dirt.. Managed to kill one of them..

I'm new here and if this is a dead horse thread, my apologies.

;)
I understand what you are saying BUT you are talking about natural mortality NOT certain mortality. Going to your 13 jake instance and hearing 3 gobblers the next year, if you are to kill a jake the year before who is to say you would not have heard 4 on that morning. You pulling the trigger on that jake ensures you will not hear him the next year. Dead Turkeys Dont Gobble, this year, next year or the next. Today's fast paced society dictates everyone has to get a kill as fast as possible so that they can get a picture of them with their Jake all fanned out on facebook or forums.

A good contingent of us on hear try to promote the shooting of mature turkeys. It may be glassing him 1,2,3, or more times, or having trail cams to ensure we are shooting 3+ year old gobblers and holding out. Many of us form "Hit Lists" Nothing sickens me more than a neighbor showing up with a 10 inch bearded gobbler bragging and than aging him and finding out he was two. Do you know what that gobbler could have been 2-3-4 years down the road. Shooting a good longbeard 2 year olds is nothing but highgrading. No different than shooing a 120 2.5 year old 8 point, that buck never realizes potential. I am not for shooting jakes and folks that brag about killing 2 year olds are just diminishing the quality.

And dont give me the I need the meat argument. Turkey is dirt cheap, its cheaper to go to the super market and buy turkey than to fuel up the truck to go out in the woods looking for one. Nobody needs to shoot a Jake to have meat in the freezer, go buy it, plus a more mature gobbler gives more meat thus you should be shooting mature ones. "Or I didn't know it was a Jake" if you're unsure of your target don't shoot, could be a guy reaping for crying out loud. Or the "if I don't shoot him someone else will" argument, all you can control is you shooting him, he will be dead. Or the "he was a scrub cull Jake" nobody can look at a Jake regardless of how late he was born and judge whether he will have a 12 inch beart or 1.5 spurs in 3 years.
How does one tell if a bird is 3+? While hunting without getting a good look at the spurs? I have shot long spurred birds with a 10" beard that did not have amber tips. For me, a longbeard is what I look for to determine if it is a shooter.

I too would like to know how to judge a 2 yr old from a 3 yr old while hunting. My best set of spurs 1.75" matching set only had a 10.5" beard.

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BuckyT
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Re: Jakes

Post by BuckyT » March 14th, 2016, 9:16 pm

ICDEDTURKES wrote:
BuckyT wrote:I've killed a few over the years. I don't target them specifically. I'm not going to say people can't shoot jakes simply because I don't like to shoot them. Seems pretty selfish to me. There is really no data absolutely proving passing jakes promotes a massive increase in gobbler numbers the following year.

If you see a group of 6 jakes, the odds are usually half of them will die from something else beside lead or TSS poisoning before the season opens the following year. Sure if you don't kill all 6 of them you'll probably ensure that 1 or 2 of them make it. Maybe.

I saw a group of 13 jakes one season. It was the next to the last day of the season. The following season I returned thinking the woods would be filled with gobblers....

Wrong... Heard only 3 or so birds gobble on that piece of dirt.. Managed to kill one of them..

I'm new here and if this is a dead horse thread, my apologies.

;)
I understand what you are saying BUT you are talking about natural mortality NOT certain mortality. Going to your 13 jake instance and hearing 3 gobblers the next year, if you are to kill a jake the year before who is to say you would not have heard 4 on that morning. You pulling the trigger on that jake ensures you will not hear him the next year. Dead Turkeys Dont Gobble, this year, next year or the next. Today's fast paced society dictates everyone has to get a kill as fast as possible so that they can get a picture of them with their Jake all fanned out on facebook or forums.

A good contingent of us on hear try to promote the shooting of mature turkeys. It may be glassing him 1,2,3, or more times, or having trail cams to ensure we are shooting 3+ year old gobblers and holding out. Many of us form "Hit Lists" Nothing sickens me more than a neighbor showing up with a 10 inch bearded gobbler bragging and than aging him and finding out he was two. Do you know what that gobbler could have been 2-3-4 years down the road. Shooting a good longbeard 2 year olds is nothing but highgrading. No different than shooing a 120 2.5 year old 8 point, that buck never realizes potential. I am not for shooting jakes and folks that brag about killing 2 year olds are just diminishing the quality.

And dont give me the I need the meat argument. Turkey is dirt cheap, its cheaper to go to the super market and buy turkey than to fuel up the truck to go out in the woods looking for one. Nobody needs to shoot a Jake to have meat in the freezer, go buy it, plus a more mature gobbler gives more meat thus you should be shooting mature ones. "Or I didn't know it was a Jake" if you're unsure of your target don't shoot, could be a guy reaping for crying out loud. Or the "if I don't shoot him someone else will" argument, all you can control is you shooting him, he will be dead. Or the "he was a scrub cull Jake" nobody can look at a Jake regardless of how late he was born and judge whether he will have a 12 inch beart or 1.5 spurs in 3 years.
I don't need the meat. If I want some turkey, I can go buy a butterball at Wally World.

I stated that if I didn't kill any of the jakes, some would more than likely make it. I simply find it amusing that people are trying to manage turkeys in regards of insuring mature animals for the next season to kill. Does a full fan, 3/4" hooks and an 8" beard really mean that much?? Lol

Of course it does! And... Trying to compare whitetails to turkeys just doesn't work. Managing deer to reach their potential is proven. Managing gobblers to reach theirs is not...Sure managing habitat for turkeys is, but don't confuse that with growing gobblers sporting 1.5" hooks.

I'm not going to lie.. I've blasted hard gobbling jakes that came in acting like big boys. I didn't shoot at a bush rustling 50yds away either. Distinguishing a the average middle aged guy with a pot belly from a 15-16lb jake is pretty easy for me to handle.

I hunt for me. I don't hunt for anybody else. Not trying to beat my chest and brag about how I only kill mature animals of any sort. And most importantly, I don't tell somebody that might not hunt the way I do that they are wrong... Today's breed of hunter is fast paced and all about the kill like you stated.... They are also about the biggest/ most mature/trophy too....

Of course I want to kill a Tom sporting 1.25 or better hooks and a rope dragging the ground! But.... I haven't lost my appetite for the hunt itself. The simple fact of being a part of the food chain when I'm out hunting. Im not out there for the "sport " of it. I'm out there because of a deeply rooted primitive drive to hunt and kill my prey. And respect my kill no matter how big or small it might be.

A good friend of mine told me "It's Your Hunt".

I believe too many people forget that and worry too much about what everybody else is doing with their hunts.

Good Luck to everyone this upcoming season !

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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: Jakes

Post by ICDEDTURKES » March 14th, 2016, 10:01 pm

Pedro and Swampchicken you are too beard oriented, pay attention to the spurs. Way too many folks see a longbeard and think its mature when its not. Its all about the spurs 1+shoot, less than no shoot. Turkey hunting is a close in sport thus if you cant judge a 2 year old from a 3+ year old its shooting not hunting.

Guiding this spring you know how many bull jakes I breasted, guys would shoot them coming through the long grass pasture thinking they were gobblers because they could see 5 inches of beard. Those bull jakes are our prime genetics. Those are what turn into 12 inch 1.5 inch spurred 4+ yr olds...
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savduck
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Re: Jakes

Post by savduck » March 14th, 2016, 10:03 pm

Gobbler wrote:OK OK OK . I didn't realize so many were not ready to go Jakeless. So Rick and I will pass out some Jake Exempt cards for those who need them.

Gobblenut you better get one. You to VAturkey. Just PM me and I'll send you one.

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Don't leave a brother out on the exempt cards.....

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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: Jakes

Post by ICDEDTURKES » March 15th, 2016, 12:24 am

Hey bud you are getting defensive, if you enjoy blasting jakes have at it, but I dont agree with it. Gonna respond to some of your stuff below.
BuckyT wrote:
I don't need the meat. If I want some turkey, I can go buy a butterball at Wally World.

I stated that if I didn't kill any of the jakes, some would more than likely make it. I simply find it amusing that people are trying to manage turkeys in regards of insuring mature animals for the next season to kill. Does a full fan, 3/4" hooks and an 8" beard really mean that much?? Lol

Of course it does! And... Trying to compare whitetails to turkeys just doesn't work. Managing deer to reach their potential is proven. Managing gobblers to reach theirs is not...Sure managing habitat for turkeys is, but don't confuse that with growing gobblers sporting 1.5" hooks.

Tell states like Arkansas and Mississippi that with their no Jakes rules. Sure it only advances the age structure 1 year much like Antler Point Restrictions. I can only believe that biologists in them states see merit in the law.
I'm not going to lie.. I've blasted hard gobbling jakes that came in acting like big boys. I didn't shoot at a bush rustling 50yds away either. Distinguishing a the average middle aged guy with a pot belly from a 15-16lb jake is pretty easy for me to handle.

They are also about the biggest/ most mature/trophy too....

Oh we agree and all the more reason to pass on jakes and 2 year olds.

Of course I want to kill a Tom sporting 1.25 or better hooks and a rope dragging the ground!

The only way you can increase your chances of shooting a "1.25+ is by "let em go let em grow" or only wait for gobblers with those types of spurs. Heck you go out blasting jakes and tag out the next bird could have 1.25+ spurs.
A good friend of mine told me "It's Your Hunt".

I believe too many people forget that and worry too much about what everybody else is doing with their hunts.

Good Luck to everyone this upcoming season !
Oh well it isn't that hard. Everyone wants to shoot a bird with 1.5 inch hooks, only way to do that is advance the age structure. I have personally never shot a bird 2 or under with 1.5 spurs.
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pedro
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Re: Jakes

Post by pedro » March 15th, 2016, 6:46 am

ICDEDTURKES wrote:Pedro and Swampchicken you are too beard oriented, pay attention to the spurs. Way too many folks see a longbeard and think its mature when its not. Its all about the spurs 1+shoot, less than no shoot. Turkey hunting is a close in sport thus if you cant judge a 2 year old from a 3+ year old its shooting not hunting.

Guiding this spring you know how many bull jakes I breasted, guys would shoot them coming through the long grass pasture thinking they were gobblers because they could see 5 inches of beard. Those bull jakes are our prime genetics. Those are what turn into 12 inch 1.5 inch spurred 4+ yr olds...
Gotcha. will have to try and do it this year. At what range can you start to see the length of the spurs? Naked eye or binos? The more it is practiced the easier it will get, kinda like identifying birds on the wing.

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Re: Jakes

Post by Uncle Nicky » March 15th, 2016, 6:50 am

I don't head out with the intention of shooting a jake, but if it's getting late in the season and I'm getting a little frustrated, a jake becomes fair game. Most fall turkey hunters will shoot a jake or even a hen, so what's the big deal about shooting a jake in the spring? :dontknow:

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appalachianassassin
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Re: Jakes

Post by appalachianassassin » March 15th, 2016, 7:06 am

well... I definitely don't shoot jakes. but I don't let 2 year olds go either.
gotta love turkey huntin!!!

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BuckyT
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Re: Jakes

Post by BuckyT » March 15th, 2016, 7:37 am

ICDEDTURKES wrote:Hey bud you are getting defensive, if you enjoy blasting jakes have at it, but I dont agree with it. Gonna respond to some of your stuff below.
BuckyT wrote:
I don't need the meat. If I want some turkey, I can go buy a butterball at Wally World.

I stated that if I didn't kill any of the jakes, some would more than likely make it. I simply find it amusing that people are trying to manage turkeys in regards of insuring mature animals for the next season to kill. Does a full fan, 3/4" hooks and an 8" beard really mean that much?? Lol

Of course it does! And... Trying to compare whitetails to turkeys just doesn't work. Managing deer to reach their potential is proven. Managing gobblers to reach theirs is not...Sure managing habitat for turkeys is, but don't confuse that with growing gobblers sporting 1.5" hooks.

Tell states like Arkansas and Mississippi that with their no Jakes rules. Sure it only advances the age structure 1 year much like Antler Point Restrictions. I can only believe that biologists in them states see merit in the law.
I'm not going to lie.. I've blasted hard gobbling jakes that came in acting like big boys. I didn't shoot at a bush rustling 50yds away either. Distinguishing a the average middle aged guy with a pot belly from a 15-16lb jake is pretty easy for me to handle.

They are also about the biggest/ most mature/trophy too....

Oh we agree and all the more reason to pass on jakes and 2 year olds.

Of course I want to kill a Tom sporting 1.25 or better hooks and a rope dragging the ground!

The only way you can increase your chances of shooting a "1.25+ is by "let em go let em grow" or only wait for gobblers with those types of spurs. Heck you go out blasting jakes and tag out the next bird could have 1.25+ spurs.
A good friend of mine told me "It's Your Hunt".

I believe too many people forget that and worry too much about what everybody else is doing with their hunts.

Good Luck to everyone this upcoming season !
Oh well it isn't that hard. Everyone wants to shoot a bird with 1.5 inch hooks, only way to do that is advance the age structure. I have personally never shot a bird 2 or under with 1.5 spurs.
Far from defensive. I'm a very easy going guy bud.

Seeing the mentality of turkeys need to be treated like whitetails is amusing. Turkeys are fragile game animals in comparison. I'd be more worried about preserving habitat and promoting healthy and hunt able populations for our children and grandchildren to hunt.

And seeing guys wanting to "grow" turkeys for trophy aspirations is par for the course this day and age I guess.....

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Re: Jakes

Post by timbrhuntr » March 15th, 2016, 9:09 am

I think Tom is right I've only been turkey hunting for just over 14 years and in the first few years shot toms with full tails and short spurs all 2 year olds. But I have been able to do as Tom states and get them in close and start to check for spur length. I have shot birds with spurs over 1" every year since doing this and my best had 1.75" spurs. It can be done just takes a bit of practice. I find it easier to ID a stud 4 year old tom than a 150" deer. Also if you get really good and pay special attention you can start to tell a mature bird just by their gobble when they are still in the tree !
Get with it guys and join the QTMA and start to grow your turkey's potential !

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Stinky J Picklestein
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Re: Jakes

Post by Stinky J Picklestein » March 15th, 2016, 9:22 am

I cull four-year-old and older birds with 1" spurs. You don't want those in your herd....uh, I mean, flock. :lol:

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Re: Jakes

Post by Gobbler » March 15th, 2016, 9:32 am

OK I give!! UNCLE!! I won't promote the don't kill Jakes anymore.

You have made your point! ICNOTURKES. I bet your jake beard collection is EPIC!

But I do need to sell the rest of these decals...

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Re: Jakes

Post by Stinky J Picklestein » March 15th, 2016, 9:40 am

Shooting a jake is like taking home a fat gal. It ain't your first choice...but you know you're gonna do it, sometimes.

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Re: Jakes

Post by timbrhuntr » March 15th, 2016, 9:40 am

I'll take a dozen just strap them to the travel call when you send it ! :thumbup:

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Re: Jakes

Post by guesswho » March 15th, 2016, 3:35 pm

ICDEDTURKES wrote: Oh well it isn't that hard. Everyone wants to shoot a bird with 1.5 inch hooks, only way to do that is advance the age structure. I have personally never shot a bird 2 or under with 1.5 spurs.
I've never killed many 4 or five years olds with 1 1/2" Spurs either. Roy had the best way to age them before you killed them. He could tell by their gobble. He never did get around to teaching me how to do that.
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HunterGKS
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Re: Jakes

Post by HunterGKS » March 15th, 2016, 4:02 pm

BuckyT wrote: A good friend of mine told me "It's Your Hunt".

I believe too many people forget that and worry too much about what everybody else is doing with their hunts.
That is exactly right. If somebody doesn't like something, shooting jakes or gobblers with 8" beards, using a blind, or decoys, then don't do it but don't gob-smack anyone else that does it differently.
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