Trying to learn from experience I have had.
My son said at 1030 "Let's go hunting". Me, my son and daughter got ready and were in the blind by 1130. Heard a couple of hens and then saw this strutter down the hill. He was in the decoys at 13 steps by 1200. Son never was able to get the shot off. He said the turkey was moving too much.
How could I have made this a successful hunt? This was a monster turkey!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzYzsIwobxM
What would you have done?
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West Augusta
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Re: What would you have done?
I would call it a successful hunt as is. You called in a longbeard. You spent the morning with your kids. Your son learned or knew that he didn't have the shot. I say good job Dad. The day will come when he will get the shot.
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Turkey Talker
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GOLD HUNTER
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Re: What would you have done?
i'd say............ "you did good son" "we allmost got him" and take him back 2mar 
he will killum as he gets older.
he will killum as he gets older.LET'S GO TROUT FISHING
Re: What would you have done?
I agree it looked like a great hunt. What is impressive is your Son did not shoot because he wasn't comfortable with the gobbler moving. I think as he gets bigger and more confident in his ability that would have been dead Gobbler. Good video and hunting lesson .
Thanks
Thanks
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Hoobilly
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Re: What would you have done?
the gobbler was moving to much? or was it your son? I am shaking like a leaf just watching it unfold?
good hunt, no shot or a miss, no turkey wounded etc. he will learn to move the bead with the turkey and the trigger pull will come naturally.
good hunt, no shot or a miss, no turkey wounded etc. he will learn to move the bead with the turkey and the trigger pull will come naturally.
Re: What would you have done?
OK, I am really pleased at his decision making. It was great.
My thoughts as I have watched it a hundred times was that I should have maybe cut or clucked to try to get him to stick his head up.
My thoughts as I have watched it a hundred times was that I should have maybe cut or clucked to try to get him to stick his head up.
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Turkey Talker
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Re: What would you have done?
One single loud cough will get the bird to stick his neck up, that's what i do every time.
Re: What would you have done?
I would call it a very successful hunt for you and your son. He made his decision and stayed with it, that shows class!
Re: What would you have done?
I saw plenty of times when the bird was stopped and the kid had a perfect shot to the Texas Heart,,,lol
I was not his father but he was my son,,MAK IV, 10-15-1993 - 4-22-2007
"Rest in Peace my Little Buddy"
"Rest in Peace my Little Buddy"
Re: What would you have done?
Great video, I think it was very successful. It's always best to pass on a shot if you're not comfortable with it. I'm impressed with the young mans decision. There will be another day.
"INFIDEL"
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Treerooster
- Posts: 197
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Re: What would you have done?
Hind sight is 20/20 so with that in mind...
I don't know everything that went on in the blind but I will throw out some ideas for you so please don't take offense to any.
I actually didn't see too many opportunities for a shot if your son didn't want to hit the decoy. New hunters, especially kids, are slow to shoot by our standards. Most need a good opportunity for what seems like a long time to us. That bird was around the deke a lot and someone new to shotgunning is not going to be all that confident in where his shot is going. Plus who wants to miss on camera.
You may have been trying to do too much by filming AND coaching your son. If you were just concentrating on your son you may have communicated better with him.
That bird surprised me the way he took off so quickly. It didn't seem like he saw anything to spook him, at least that I could tell. Although the gobbler did do that wing flip they usually do when they are about to leave. He went back to the decoy after that, but it could have been a sign he didn't like something.
You may have been wanting some film action instead of taking, or perhaps better said "making", the first shot opportunity. In this case a putt or a little noise could have got the gobbler to stop and raise his head. You started calling too late and the bird was already headed out by then. Sometimes I will make a sort of kissing noise with my lips to get a turkey to raise it's head. It is a noise not really associated with danger to turkeys and I think they try to figure out what it is. I can make it with my head on the stock and don't even have to get a mouth call in position first. I don't like talking or making noises that turkeys consider danger, they may raise their head at such noise, or just duck and bolt.
If it were just me in the blind I would have probably waited to take a shot and then would have had to make a quick going away shot. With a new hunter and trying to get him a bird though, more active calling by the "guide" may have resulted in a dead turkey. But like I said hind sight is 20/20.
I don't know everything that went on in the blind but I will throw out some ideas for you so please don't take offense to any.
I actually didn't see too many opportunities for a shot if your son didn't want to hit the decoy. New hunters, especially kids, are slow to shoot by our standards. Most need a good opportunity for what seems like a long time to us. That bird was around the deke a lot and someone new to shotgunning is not going to be all that confident in where his shot is going. Plus who wants to miss on camera.
You may have been trying to do too much by filming AND coaching your son. If you were just concentrating on your son you may have communicated better with him.
That bird surprised me the way he took off so quickly. It didn't seem like he saw anything to spook him, at least that I could tell. Although the gobbler did do that wing flip they usually do when they are about to leave. He went back to the decoy after that, but it could have been a sign he didn't like something.
You may have been wanting some film action instead of taking, or perhaps better said "making", the first shot opportunity. In this case a putt or a little noise could have got the gobbler to stop and raise his head. You started calling too late and the bird was already headed out by then. Sometimes I will make a sort of kissing noise with my lips to get a turkey to raise it's head. It is a noise not really associated with danger to turkeys and I think they try to figure out what it is. I can make it with my head on the stock and don't even have to get a mouth call in position first. I don't like talking or making noises that turkeys consider danger, they may raise their head at such noise, or just duck and bolt.
If it were just me in the blind I would have probably waited to take a shot and then would have had to make a quick going away shot. With a new hunter and trying to get him a bird though, more active calling by the "guide" may have resulted in a dead turkey. But like I said hind sight is 20/20.
Re: What would you have done?
First off that looked like a very exciting hunt. I saw a few spot where I would have shot, but if a young or unexperience hunter was the shooter I would have made them hold off other that maybe once or twice but that is easy to see after it happens rather than live. I do not use decoys very often but if I do and a mature bird comes in I personally do not mind some shot wholes in the decoy if that is the only shot I can get. One thing you may want to do is face the jake away from you so when the bird comes in he will not be facing toward you as he is going up against the decoy. This allows for a bit more opportunities for you to move if need be cause he is not looking directly at you and is focused on the decoy. The only other thing I might would have done is cluck at him when he was not right on the decoy. Usually that will get them to stand straight and still, but I have had one or two that would not break strut no matter what. I hate to shoot a turkey in strut but sometimes you got to do what you got to do. Congratulations on an excellent and successful hunt! Killing the bird there is just left over gravy for the biscuit!
Re: What would you have done?
One thing that sometimes takes the pressure off a young kid about taking the shot, is to instruct him where to aim before the bird is ready to be shot, and give them the go ahead to shoot when they are ready instead of telling him to wait, or when to shoot etc.
Here's an excerpt from one of my sons' first turkeys, as an example:
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We immediately sat down against a big pine tree, and I reminded Jared about the proper gun positioning etc. Well, Jared was about to pop. As he got the twenty gauge Browning auto up, rested his left arm on his left leg like I had showed him, I noticed the gun was shaking wildly up and down in sync with his breathing. And then he suddenly got an uncontrollable case of the itches. He started scratching his chest and side with his right hand. I just knew he would never kill this turkey if he didn’t calm down, so I firmly said, “Jared, you have GOT to be still, son!” Jared’s breathing was loud and deep and erratic, and he just couldn’t help it! The excitement was just too much for him. So I decided on a different approach and said, “Jared, don’t think too much about the turkey coming in, but concentrate on aiming at his neck and making a good shot.” This seemed to work, and almost immediately, his shaking gun was still, and his itching dissipated.
Only about 30 seconds had elapsed from the time we sat down, when I saw his fan appear over the rise! I whispered, “There he is!” But Jared had already seen him, and he had his gun aiming right at the turkey. The only problem was, the turkey was heading slightly to the left, and Jared was pointing the gun at the wrong side of a cluster of pine trees the turkey would have to walk past. So as soon as the turkey got behind the pine trees, I said, “Move the gun to the other side of the pine trees, take your time, and shoot him as soon as you get a good shot.”
Jared maneuvered the gun perfectly, and the strutting tom eased over a few more steps, right into Jared’s sights. The tom eased out of full strut and raised his head a bit to look for the hen, and “BOOM!!”
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Here's an excerpt from one of my sons' first turkeys, as an example:
***************************
We immediately sat down against a big pine tree, and I reminded Jared about the proper gun positioning etc. Well, Jared was about to pop. As he got the twenty gauge Browning auto up, rested his left arm on his left leg like I had showed him, I noticed the gun was shaking wildly up and down in sync with his breathing. And then he suddenly got an uncontrollable case of the itches. He started scratching his chest and side with his right hand. I just knew he would never kill this turkey if he didn’t calm down, so I firmly said, “Jared, you have GOT to be still, son!” Jared’s breathing was loud and deep and erratic, and he just couldn’t help it! The excitement was just too much for him. So I decided on a different approach and said, “Jared, don’t think too much about the turkey coming in, but concentrate on aiming at his neck and making a good shot.” This seemed to work, and almost immediately, his shaking gun was still, and his itching dissipated.
Only about 30 seconds had elapsed from the time we sat down, when I saw his fan appear over the rise! I whispered, “There he is!” But Jared had already seen him, and he had his gun aiming right at the turkey. The only problem was, the turkey was heading slightly to the left, and Jared was pointing the gun at the wrong side of a cluster of pine trees the turkey would have to walk past. So as soon as the turkey got behind the pine trees, I said, “Move the gun to the other side of the pine trees, take your time, and shoot him as soon as you get a good shot.”
Jared maneuvered the gun perfectly, and the strutting tom eased over a few more steps, right into Jared’s sights. The tom eased out of full strut and raised his head a bit to look for the hen, and “BOOM!!”
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timbrhuntr
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Re: What would you have done?
I agree with what Hal said. Be more specific instead of just saying kill him or you on him. Talk the kid through it. Tell him to aim at the neck like we practised etc.
Last edited by timbrhuntr on December 30th, 2012, 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gobbler336
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- Joined: May 25th, 2012, 12:36 pm
Re: What would you have done?
hmmmm, does your son shoot the gun much, i mean is he afraid of the kick? have a friend that carried his son and called in alot of birds till he finally figured out the kid was just plain scared to shoot. a target is different than an animal, i remember when i was very little my dad taking me squirrel hunting with a 410, i was used to a 22 and i couldn't make myself shoot the 410 at a squirrel for fear of the kick. takes time, alot of times they just wanna go, not necessarly to kill, alot would rather watch dad do it. when he is ready you will know. ya got time, he did say"lets go hunting", maybe he just simply enjoys time with dad and hunting is a way to do that, the urge to kill will come, but personally and i don't want ya to take offense but i don't think it is there yet, the moving to much was an excuse plain and simple.
Re: What would you have done?
Personally, I will take offense. My son is not a liar nor excuse maker. If he doesn't want to, he doesn't do it and tells me.gobbler336 wrote:personally and i don't want ya to take offense but i don't think it is there yet, the moving to much was an excuse plain and simple.
So, personally and don't take offense, keep your opinions to yourself. Don't comment on my posts and don't talk bad about my kid when he hasn't done anything wrong
Raymond
Re: What would you have done?
gobbler336 wrote:hmmmm, does your son shoot the gun much, i mean is he afraid of the kick? have a friend that carried his son and called in alot of birds till he finally figured out the kid was just plain scared to shoot. a target is different than an animal, i remember when i was very little my dad taking me squirrel hunting with a 410, i was used to a 22 and i couldn't make myself shoot the 410 at a squirrel for fear of the kick. takes time, alot of times they just wanna go, not necessarly to kill, alot would rather watch dad do it. when he is ready you will know. ya got time, he did say"lets go hunting", maybe he just simply enjoys time with dad and hunting is a way to do that, the urge to kill will come, but personally and i don't want ya to take offense but i don't think it is there yet, the moving to much was an excuse plain and simple.
The boy has shot birds before so I do not think that is what happened. Maybe if he never shot, but in my experience you can tell when they are nervous and 99% of them will tell you their fear at the moment. Unless you are just forcing the kid I do not think this happens very often. Like I said this is not the boys first rodeo, just a smart decision for an unexperienced hunter. Before long that bird will be across his shoulder.
Mr. Hal made a very good suggestion of walking them though the process, I like it, even if he is a Flop Master.
Re: What would you have done?
Doesn't appear to me that you or your son did anything wrong, he just didn't get the shot he wanted. It also appeared that the gobbler was never really confident that he should have been messing around there in the first place.
My son, who is 12, has 3 deer seasons and 2 turkey seasons under his belt. What I've learned from taking him hunting is that kids want a clear view of their target and a target that is standing perfectly still. He has been very successful when those opportunities presented and not so much when they weren't. As they gain experience, they will be able to pick an opening when their target is in some cover and they will learn when, or if, a shot should be taken on an animal that is moving. I've also learned that sometimes as much as we, as parents, want it to happen for our kids, they just don't have the experience that we have to make it happen.
Your son was very responsible with decision making during that hunt and now he has that experience to make him more successful the next time.
Good luck to you this spring.
My son, who is 12, has 3 deer seasons and 2 turkey seasons under his belt. What I've learned from taking him hunting is that kids want a clear view of their target and a target that is standing perfectly still. He has been very successful when those opportunities presented and not so much when they weren't. As they gain experience, they will be able to pick an opening when their target is in some cover and they will learn when, or if, a shot should be taken on an animal that is moving. I've also learned that sometimes as much as we, as parents, want it to happen for our kids, they just don't have the experience that we have to make it happen.
Your son was very responsible with decision making during that hunt and now he has that experience to make him more successful the next time.
Good luck to you this spring.
Re: What would you have done?
Regardless of the reason why he did not end up taking a shot there, it is a compliment to both yourself and your son that you have taught him not to take what he feels is a questionable shot. There have no doubt been situations with parents and kids where the pressure to be successful by both has resulted in a poor decision being made and possibly, a wounded bird left in the woods to suffer. Good for you both, Ray, that you have taught your son the proper "ethics and respect" first!
Kudos to you both!!
Kudos to you both!!
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drenalinld
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Re: What would you have done?
I couldn't agree more with GN. If he didn't feel comfortable with the shot, it was a mature decision to pass. Clucking, keeing, or cutting may have stopped him and got him to raise his head or maybe not. Many times this will draw attention to you and the bird will get nervous and the show will be over soon. Congrats on a great hunt and a great kid.
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GSLAM95
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Re: What would you have done?
Ray you had a successful hunt no matter how anyone else looks at it. I feel your pain as I have been there with kids I have taken out that we got to that same point and for one reason or another just couldn't get the shot off. It's just part of it but I also think it makes the little guys and gals appreciate it that much more when they do become successful and get to step on a turkeys head for the first time.
Observations I made..
First - You did good if you had the son and daughter in the blind together at the same time to start with.
I could hear the excited breathing of your son and the excitement in your voice, that of course is why we're out there is for the excitement. With this being said though I am sure you know that when dad is excited it's even harder for the youngster to remain calm. Just seemed like a lot of hurried conversation trying to get him a shot. I know it's somewhat normal so please don't take it out of context or the wrong way as it was merely an observation.
Did he have the gun on a Primos trigger stick or something similar? I know I have started carrying one when I take kids and it's a huge help.
Another thing I have done over the years (no matter who the youth is) to help them with their subconscious at the heat of the moment is to help them calm down and focus mainly on aiming. I whisper in their ear repeat to yourself that it's just a dumb ol turkey.
While doing this I also reach up and grasp their shoulder close to their neck and lightly squeeze, applying a little more tension slowly until they start to calm down. It may sound silly but while the eyes are focusing down the gun barrel the mind is saying hey I feel al slight pinch on my neck/shoulder. This little trick has worked flawlessly for many first time youth hunters I have taken out.
I had one little guy on a guided youth hunt up North that was sitting right in front of me, leaned back against me so hard as a bird was coming in I thought I was going to loose my breath. When I told him to just keep saying "It's just a dumb ol Turkey" he started whispering it out loud and louder each time he was saying it. Finally I squeezed his shoulder hard enough that he quit shaking long enough to focus and make the shot.
Afterwards I asked him if he felt me squeezing his shoulder/neck and he said no.
Sorry for the long story......Just thought it might help in the future...........You had a great hunt and my hat is off to you for getting the boy interested in turkey hunting and teaching him how responsibility, ethics and morals come into place when hunting..
Good luck this coming spring...
I am not that good at writing and probably should have proof read it...
Observations I made..
First - You did good if you had the son and daughter in the blind together at the same time to start with.
I could hear the excited breathing of your son and the excitement in your voice, that of course is why we're out there is for the excitement. With this being said though I am sure you know that when dad is excited it's even harder for the youngster to remain calm. Just seemed like a lot of hurried conversation trying to get him a shot. I know it's somewhat normal so please don't take it out of context or the wrong way as it was merely an observation.
Did he have the gun on a Primos trigger stick or something similar? I know I have started carrying one when I take kids and it's a huge help.
Another thing I have done over the years (no matter who the youth is) to help them with their subconscious at the heat of the moment is to help them calm down and focus mainly on aiming. I whisper in their ear repeat to yourself that it's just a dumb ol turkey.
While doing this I also reach up and grasp their shoulder close to their neck and lightly squeeze, applying a little more tension slowly until they start to calm down. It may sound silly but while the eyes are focusing down the gun barrel the mind is saying hey I feel al slight pinch on my neck/shoulder. This little trick has worked flawlessly for many first time youth hunters I have taken out.
I had one little guy on a guided youth hunt up North that was sitting right in front of me, leaned back against me so hard as a bird was coming in I thought I was going to loose my breath. When I told him to just keep saying "It's just a dumb ol Turkey" he started whispering it out loud and louder each time he was saying it. Finally I squeezed his shoulder hard enough that he quit shaking long enough to focus and make the shot.
Afterwards I asked him if he felt me squeezing his shoulder/neck and he said no.
Sorry for the long story......Just thought it might help in the future...........You had a great hunt and my hat is off to you for getting the boy interested in turkey hunting and teaching him how responsibility, ethics and morals come into place when hunting..
Good luck this coming spring...
I am not that good at writing and probably should have proof read it...
When in doubt,show up early. Think less. Feel more. Ask once. Give thanks often. Expect the best. Appreciate everything. Never give up. Make it fun. Lead. Invent. Regroup. Wink. Chill. Smile. And live as if your success was inevitable, and so it shall be.
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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: What would you have done?
I think your son had opportunities to pull the trigger on the gobbler.. But judging by his gun barrel, he truly was never able to settle the gun barrel down on the head to feel confident with the shot.. He made the right decision judging by the figure 8s in the gun barrel.. I would hate to have mine videoed sometimes.
I think some form of mono pod would have resulted in him feeling more confident with the sights settled on the head and neck.
I think some form of mono pod would have resulted in him feeling more confident with the sights settled on the head and neck.
Re: What would you have done?
Well, it seems I wasn't clear about what I wanted to improve.
I am very proud my 8 yo chose not to make a shot he wasn't comfortable with. He did it multiple times during deer season, and was still able to take 4 this year.
My question is really: what are your thoughts on how I could have made this better, by maybe cutting or yelping or some thing. When we are in the blind he does use a Trigger stick monopod. He is now tall enough to use the tall bipod standing, so he will use that from now on. I'm going to get him out of the blind more this year. He took his first last year out of the blind and really was awesome. On our way to each hunt I always review where to aim, to squeeze the trigger, and to try to breathe slowly. Then again when we have one coming in or in front of us. I don't like him to have a suboptimal experience b/c I have messed something up. We have really been blessed in the 4 yrs we have been turkey hunting. I need to put more practice into my calling, but we have a great time when we are out and hearing gobbles and killing one are really icing on the cake.
I do apologize for not being specific enough about my question and do appreciate the replies. Asking questions and being open to suggestions and critiques is the only way to get better.
Raymond
I am very proud my 8 yo chose not to make a shot he wasn't comfortable with. He did it multiple times during deer season, and was still able to take 4 this year.
My question is really: what are your thoughts on how I could have made this better, by maybe cutting or yelping or some thing. When we are in the blind he does use a Trigger stick monopod. He is now tall enough to use the tall bipod standing, so he will use that from now on. I'm going to get him out of the blind more this year. He took his first last year out of the blind and really was awesome. On our way to each hunt I always review where to aim, to squeeze the trigger, and to try to breathe slowly. Then again when we have one coming in or in front of us. I don't like him to have a suboptimal experience b/c I have messed something up. We have really been blessed in the 4 yrs we have been turkey hunting. I need to put more practice into my calling, but we have a great time when we are out and hearing gobbles and killing one are really icing on the cake.
I do apologize for not being specific enough about my question and do appreciate the replies. Asking questions and being open to suggestions and critiques is the only way to get better.
Raymond
Re: What would you have done?
You didn't need to do anything else. The turkey was there and could have been killed by a comfortable shooter. It's good that your son didn't shoot when he was not sure about the shot.
In reality, had it been me and my son, I would have shot the turkey myself and told my son that he needs to get himself together faster. Granted, I believe in "hard lessons" for my son when it comes to hunting. Just my way...I don't believe in making it easy for kids.
Mike
In reality, had it been me and my son, I would have shot the turkey myself and told my son that he needs to get himself together faster. Granted, I believe in "hard lessons" for my son when it comes to hunting. Just my way...I don't believe in making it easy for kids.
Mike
Ultimate Predator