Muzzleloading Bullets

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ICDEDTURKES
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Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

The last few years I have been hit hard by the modern inline front stuffer bug.. So much I do not even care to hunt whitetail with a modern centerfire anymore.. Through the years I have been fortunate to kill numerous deer with a front stuffer with a handful of the more popular bullet/sabot offerings. I have also been on numerous blood trails of others deer on snow which really tells the story and have been apart of the gutting, skinning of these animals. Well more or less standing there drinking beer watching the deer get skinned.. Here are my thoughts and some pictures from a trusted member of another forum..

Powerbelts- I jumped on the Powerbelt craze at their inception.. The thought of an easy loading projectile was intriguing. What I quickly found out was these bullets were extremely finicky at the range.. Why? The answer is two fold.. One, the easy loading properties of the bullet also ensures that the seal with the powder is not perfect thus ensuring inconsistency.. Two, the bullet is undersized thus in a sense disabling the rifling in your modern inline.

There is a saying "Friends do not let friends shoot powerbelts" Powerbelts are a recipe for disaster at close range.. With their thin copper jacket paired with high velocities recovered bullets at high velocities flatter to look like a 50 cent piece.. I really wish I had taken pictures of recovered powerbelts from years back.. Well they mushroom right thats good? Yes it is but tracking deer especially on dry ground the pass through should be highly valued.

Here is a picture from my trusted friendImage
Here's a fine example of one, shot out of a Knight MK-85 with 110grs 2f and a range of 90yds, give or take. The bullet made a complete pass thru, burying itself in the dirt. Had I not been hunting where I could see the deer fall, you'd have never known the deer had been hit. Not one single drop of blood until where it layed. It ran at least 100yds, give or take. Encore
Note lack of rifling grooves as well as no expansion


TC Shockwave/Hornady SST/Traditions Smackdown SST

All three of these bullets are the same with a change in Tip Color and Sabot.. I switched to these one year as season neared and could not find my Barnes locally.. Knowing Hornady for a quality product I had no suspicions of their performance going in..

I will state these are very accurate.. I was pleased to find that year POI was identical to my Barnes T-EZ.. Collectively we shot a few deer and were pleased with the performance.. Than one night it happened.. Sal and I were sitting in a box with snow on the ground. A doe came out at 50 yards and I hammered down.. We watched as the deer ran through one shooting lane and than died in the next. Being curious I went to the point of shot to see what the blood trail was.. There was none.. Upon recovering the deer there was a small smear of blood on the hide.. Upon skinning the animal it was a perfect 2 lunger with a perfect 50 cal hole through, no expansion.


A few more deer died and than all hell broke loose.. First Sal had shot a fat doe at 40 yards.. She believed the hit was true.. We took up blood on snow only to find she was bleeding on one side.. The track continued for 200 yards until the blood quit in a major yarding area where blood was lost.. Hypothesis, Core Jacket seperation resulting in no exit wound and maybe not reaching anything vital..

A few nights later my BIL shooting 250g Shockwaves through a Remington Genesis had a real respectable buck come out on the snow.. He squeezed the trigger and the deer went down flailing.. He was so confident the deer was dead he did not reload.. Too his suprise out ran the deer.. Tracking on snow revealed blood on one side.. The deer laid up a couple a times with minimal blood in the beds.. Tracking ended after 400 yards with no blood.. Hypothesis Pulled shot a touch resulting in front shoulder shot, core jacket seperation and thus no penetration and a deer with a surface wound on the front shoulder. Not to bore anyone but just a few nights ago another friend had the same scenario play out on a buck that hit the dirt with no blood whatsoever to be found..

Here is a pick from a local friend of yet another deer that was luckily recovered and shows the copper with no core.. Image

Hornady XTP

This is a great little bullet.. I have shot a handful of deer with XTPs and my father still shoots them.. The only drawback of the XTP is accuracy.. The XTP provides not exceptional but adequate accuracy out to 100 yards, but due to its construction I feel as in if in most guns through my shooting, it is a delegated 100 and in bullet.. Most every deer we have shot with a XTP has resulted in a pass through and good blood trail..

Barnes..

I really cannot say enough about the Barnes family of muzzleloading bullets. From Exceptional accuracy, High weight retention to its fail safe design.. After shooting numerous and recovering numerous deer shot with various Barnes I have yet to see one fail to pass through the quarry. I have seen double shoulder shots which were complete pass throughs at 100.. Recently I shot a doe with T-Ez at 70 yards. She was hard quartering towards.. The bullet passed through the heart and ran most of the body resulting in a exit hole I could place my fist through..

Barnes Family of Bullets

Expander/Knight Red Hot- A large hollow point for rapid expansion in a HPH 12 Sabot for larger bored guns.. A very accurate bullet out to 100+ yards.. Accuracy can go down after this due to its large hollowpoint and flat base. .. Sals recent purchase of an Optima did not shoot the T-EZ well but preferred the larger sabot on the Expander. At 100 yards with 2 T7 pellets she is receiving 1.250 groups..

TMZ- A boattail designed all copper constructed polymer tip over a hollow point. Exceptional accuracy at any range.. Not the easiest loading sabot in the world, but the difficult loading has tradeoffs in accuracy.. We will be switching the Optima to these next year.

T-EZ/Knight Ultimate Slam- A flat base, hollow point with a polymer tip.. Incredible accuracy at all ranges. Easier loading than its TMZ counterpart and devastating performance on game.. It it what I personally shoot out of the Optima Elite and provides a very nice trade of easy loading and accuracy.. One jagged Hole at 100 yards all day long.

Image
Some other bullets I am very interested in trying next year but most likely never will as I have soo much faith in my Barnes and we only get to shoot so many deer.

Knight Bloodline- A individually hand turned CNC bullet constructed of all brass featuring a deep Hollow point which segments into six razor sharp cutting petals. Designed and built by Lehigh Defense and marketed under the Knight Name.

Partition Gold- I have always loved Partition bullets in a centerfire but actually finding these on a store shelf they are far and few between.

I am not a bullet expert or ballistics expert.. I just know what I have seen over the years in terms of terminal and ballistic performance. It is really a shame that TC has marketed the shockwave so well and CVA the powerbelt.. These are the two bullets you are most apt to find on a store shelf and neither should be allowed to be carried to the woods.. It may be the 1st it may be the 100th but these bullets will fail you eventually. We will all lose game and feel the remorse upon it happening.. When it is your own fault you deserve to be upset, but no one should ever have to experience this due to bullet failure on a well placed shot.
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redarrow
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by redarrow »

The Powerbelts are deadly accurate in my Optima.But I don't ever read anything positive about them as a hunting bullet. I previously used the Hornady SST and managed to kill a small buck.Bullet entered the right ham (bad Shot) and stopped under the hide on the left shoulder. No expansion at all. I just ordered the Barnes TMS bullets from Midway.
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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

redarrow wrote:The Powerbelts are deadly accurate in my Optima.But I don't ever read anything positive about them as a hunting bullet. I previously used the Hornady SST and managed to kill a small buck.Bullet entered the right ham (bad Shot) and stopped under the hide on the left shoulder. No expansion at all. I just ordered the Barnes TMS bullets from Midway.
Red you will be very happy.. Sals Optima will be switched from Expanders to TMZ next year.. For the whole 150 yard shot deal..
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by redarrow »

I have that recovered Hornady bullet somewhere. If I find it I will post a pic. The bullet grazed the leg bone and went through the shoulder and all it did was distort the tip a bit.
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by vaturkey »

Hey Tom

Have you tried the T/C Shockwave Bonded Bullet. I switched to them several years ago & have been very happy with them. I use the 250 grain superglide bonded bullet in my T/C Omega. They are not only very accurate they expand awesome. Deer usually drop in their tracks or if they do run any at all the blood trail is unreal.


vaturkey :struttin:
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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

vaturkey wrote:Hey Tom

Have you tried the T/C Shockwave Bonded Bullet. I switched to them several years ago & have been very happy with them. I use the 250 grain superglide bonded bullet in my T/C Omega. They are not only very accurate they expand awesome. Deer usually drop in their tracks or if they do run any at all the blood trail is unreal.


vaturkey :struttin:
No I have not in my frustration with the Shockwave in general I have strayed away from them.. But I do see where a bonded shockwave would cure the problems of core jacket seperation that is oh so common with the original shockwave.. I am curious as to why Hornady itself has not marketed a bonded SST.. Seeings that they make TCs bullet..
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by CamoMan4025 »

I've killed numerous deer with 200 & 250 grain Shockwaves and have never lost a deer. I may look at going to the bonded bullet for next year as vaturkey suggests. On the other hand, probably 90% of the deer I've killed have been shot in the neck and they crumble to the ground in place!

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vaturkey
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by vaturkey »

The bonded bulletts are bad azz. I recon I could go shoot one of the neighbors cows & take a few pics of the damage they do. :thumbup:
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

CamoMan4025 wrote:I've killed numerous deer with 200 & 250 grain Shockwaves and have never lost a deer. I may look at going to the bonded bullet for next year as vaturkey suggests. On the other hand, probably 90% of the deer I've killed have been shot in the neck and they crumble to the ground in place!

Kevin
Kev, I would switch ASAP.. The original shockwaves are nothing but a ticking bomb no pun intended.. Eventually you will have failure whether that matters on a neck shot or not.. It is not just me, its family, friends and friends of friends..

If you are satisfied with the TC accuracy the bonded version would most likely be a better choice. If the choice arose to defend my home from a intruder with a Shockwave or a rusty butter knife I would opt for the butter knife..
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by GOLD HUNTER »

Guys i have a buddy that shoots T/C Shockwave Bonded Bullet 250gn with 100gn 777 "black box" and i shoot the 300gn shockwave with 130gn 777 mag "red box", both of our guns are the t/c pro hunter. we have killed alot of deer with them set-ups. my gun wont shoot his combo and his wont shoot my combo, @ 100yds they are deadly on deer and Quarters . :thumbup:

last year we cleaned out wal-mart, they had them on clearance for $ 6.00 a box. :mrgreen:

The poi on a deer is a key factor on killing them ! :cherry:

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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

GOLD HUNTER wrote: The poi on a deer is a key factor on killing them ! :cherry:

brian
I guess I need to document all my shooting sessions with pictures of me and my targets in every pic.. Shot at a range nobody cares about. That will make me a better shot for sure. :cherry:

Not when a bullet self imparts on impact or never opens.. They are absolute junk and Hornady and TC shoudl be ashamed to market such a piece of ****.. I hope you all never lose a deer but will be the first to laugh at you when you do. Consider yourself warned.
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by GOLD HUNTER »

good post man but they work for me..........hell you can kill a deer with a .22 :dontknow:

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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

GOLD HUNTER wrote:good post man but they work for me..........hell you can kill a deer with a .22 :dontknow:

brian
Yup you can.. And you can kill turkeys with steel.. Good Luck :thumbup:
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by GOLD HUNTER »

:lol: 10.4 and good luck to you !!!

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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by YellaJacket »

I switched to 250 gr. Barnes expander mz's about 6 years ago..before that I had similar accounts of pass through with no blood trail. We've come a long way since the hard lead knight sabots. I used hornadys 240 grain for probly 5 years prior to Barnes. Killed bucks with it but several had to be shot twice because of no expansion. The jacket would peel off the hornady by mid pass...too soon in my opinion. The solid copper Barnes would peel open and rip all the way through and leaving an impressive exit would. I've only recovered 1 Barnes from 6 kills with it. I'm highly impressed. My dad went to power belts. And shot them for two years. He uses shockwaves now.
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by vaturkey »

Image



Here's a pic of the T/C 250 grain Bonded Bullet ! :thumbup:
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by GOLD HUNTER »

Setting here in the tree stand and looking for a deer today and had some time to kill, so i thought id post this. this is a 300gn s/w. shot with 100gn 777 "black box" that i got out of a buck a few years back. it killed the buck dead, but did not come out BUT he was dead. now that i shoot the 777 "red box" 130gn they come out of the deer and i have yet to find one in a deer. :thumbup:

brian

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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by GOLD HUNTER »

we got 30 boxes @ $ 6.00 a box.......... i'll shoot them all day at deer !!!

:violent3:

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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by YellaJacket »

The Sabots would probly work better if they were steel GH :scratch: Most of the deer around here arent but 110 lbs soakin wet anyhow ;)
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

Barnes did their job tonight.. :thumbup:
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Re: Muzzleloading Bullets

Post by devastator »

ICDEDTURKES wrote:
GOLD HUNTER wrote:good post man but they work for me..........hell you can kill a deer with a .22 :dontknow:

brian
Yup you can.. And you can kill turkeys with steel.. Good Luck :thumbup:
and copper coated lol
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