fall hunters?

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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

I would be the first to say that it is extremely hard to call up a longbeard in the fall, and quite a feat if you do it. We have only a few counties in AL that have a fall season, and it is gobblers only and any you kill in the fall count against your spring limit. I have no problem at all with any hunter that goes out to legally kill a fall gobbler and then counts it against his limit, but I can tell you that the guys that actually do this are few and far between. I doubt there are 100 in the entire state.

I live in Coosa Co and we had a fall season for years that ran at the same time as deer season. There were hundreds, maybe thousands, of turkeys killed every fall, but 99% were killed by deer hunters. Its illegal to kill them with buckshot or rifles, but many folks saw that as just a technicality. We managed to get them to do away with the fall season in our county, and it made a huge difference in the spring hunting. Most hunters won't shoot one in the fall if its completely illegal, but will take the chance on an illegal weapon.

There is no fall season on my farm in Perry Co. I make no effort to get close to turkeys, but would have no problem killing a whole bunch every year while deer hunting. There are always days when flocks of longbeards feed right by me. I'm hunting deer in the acorns, the turkeys are in the acorns, our paths are gonna cross even thought I try to avoid them. If we had a fall season like TN where I could kill 6 in a day, I don't think I'd have any trouble killing a bunch of turkeys without even trying very hard.

I realize that the real fall turkey hunters don't set up in an oak grove and wait for the turkeys to walk by, but I would imagine a lot get killed that way. At any rate, I have no interest in fall turkey hunting. Good luck to those of that you do! Except for the hens; I hope you miss all the hens. :)
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by TRKYHTR »

We have alot of turkeys in CA. I fall turkey hunted back in the late 80's and didn't much like it. I went maybe once a year in the fall and if I killed a turkey it was no big deal. For the last 5 years or more I have been planning fall turkey hunting trips and have enjoyed it much more. When I first started turkey hunting CA allowed 1 turkey either sex per day for a 30 day season. You could legally kill 30 turkeys. Now you can only kill 1 turkey either sex in the fall. I would like to see them go to a 5 bird limit combined with spring and fall. Our limit is on the honor system anyway. We don't have tags for turkeys. BTW there was a hen in my drive way when I got home that had 3 poults with her. They stayed around my pinned up turkeys the whole afternoon.

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Johndoe
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Johndoe »

PCP

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to shoot turkeys from a raised position, such as a tree stand in Ala.
Thats one of the reasons I love Ala. Lots of birds, limit of 5, and no shootin em from trees with rifles.

John
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There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by hawglips »

ICDEDTURKES wrote:
Shooter wrote:We have a goofy fall season here in TN. You are allowed to shoot turkeys with a bow, while deer hunting.
I wish every state could find a way to segregate these seasons..

I wholeheartedly agree. Keep the two seperate to prevent folks from killing turkeys who walk by their deer stand or feed at their corn pile.
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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

TRKYHTR wrote: You could legally kill 30 turkeys.

TRKYHTR
We are allowed to buy one tag a day from the drawing until their sold out, which they never do.. So I believe its like 72 tags I could buy for the fall. Yet they only allow one spring bird.
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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

Johndoe wrote:PCP

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to shoot turkeys from a raised position, such as a tree stand in Ala.
Thats one of the reasons I love Ala. Lots of birds, limit of 5, and no shootin em from trees with rifles.

John
John, you are right, but that's another law that many seem to take as a "suggestion." And its pretty hard to enforce; GW would almost have to see the guy shoot him.

I don't know about the other counties in AL, but here in Coosa Co in the days of our fall season most of the turkeys were killed by hunters on dog drives, and they were on the ground for the most part. I once bought a rifle from a hunter who bragged that his gun had already killed 7 turkeys that season. I'm glad we tried to put a stop to that kind of nonsense. There are some who still do it, but now they know they are complete outlaws and they have to hide the turkeys. Most hunters won't shoot them when they know there is a reasonable chance of getting caught.

And I agree with you on the AL regs! We have a 5 gobbler spring limit, all day hunting, a 6 weeks season, the nation's highest turkey harvest, and its been that way for decades. And we still have more turkeys than ever. It looks like other states would be trying to copy us, instead of implementing endless regulations that do nothing to help the turkey population.
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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

POPULATION ESTIMATES via Turkey and Turkey Hunting 2011 Spring Turkey hunting Guide
1.Texas
pop:600,000
fall hunting:yes,varies by county.
all seasons combined limit of 4,all of which can be of either sex in the fall.

2.Alabama
pop:500,000
fall hunting:no

3.Missouri
pop:460,000
fall hunting:yes,1 bird either sex.

4.Pennsylvania
pop:335,000
fall hunting:yes,1 bird either sex.

5.Wisconsin
pop:320,000
fall hunting:yes,1 fall turkey either sex in all counties.
leftover permits sold on first come first basis on leftover permits.

6.Georgia
pop:300,000
fall hunting:no

7.Tennessee
pop:300,000
fall hunting:yes,bag limit varies by county,with up to 6 permits
good for either sex in certain counties.

8.New York
pop:250,000
fall hunting:yes,either sex,bag limit varies by county.

9.Florida
pop:250,000
fall hunting:yes,bag limit of 2,both of which must be bearded.

10.California
pop:240,000
fall hunting:yes,1 either sex.


2010 SPRING HARVEST ESTIMATES

1.Wisconsin-47,539 fall season,yes
2.Pennsylvania-42,763 fall season,yes
3.Missouri-42,253 fall season,yes
4.Michigan-41,000 fall season,yes
5.Oklahoma-37,407 fall season,yes
6.Tennessee-36,781 fall season,yes
7.Alabama-36,600 fall season,no
8.Kentucky-36,094 fall season,yes
9.Kansas-33,350 fall season,yes
10.Georgia-27,323 fall season,no
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Turkey Talker
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Turkey Talker »

Love how florida didn't make that last list. :lol:
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Johndoe
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Johndoe »

They didnt make the first list either. That info was a typo from some magazine.
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There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that
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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

It all depends on who you talk to as to who has the highest harvest. This place says AL is #1 and Teas is #4:

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/ ... y-hunting/

AL does not have a good system in place to get a really accurate harvest number. They do a random survey of licensed hunters, which will get you a number that is plenty good for setting seasons and such, and that's all they need. But they make no attempt at all to count the harvest by unlicensed hunters, and I don't mean illegals. I mean those under 16 and over 65, and that number is significant. The estimate of 60,000 per year in the article is probably pretty close, though I feel sure it often goes over 70,000.

My point was that the AL system of a very liberal limit on spring gobblers and little fall hunting and NO hen killing ever has resulted in a sustainable system that I like better than any other state. YMMV
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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

That last article was somewhat subjective; I shoulda read it closer before posting. It was just the first thing I found. This chart comes from the AL DCNR web site here: http://outdooralabama.com/research-mgmt ... Survey.pdf

But once again, remember that these numbers reflect the harvest of only the licensed hunters, and there are bunch killed by kids and old men every year. Even a few old women. :)

I'm not sure how well this chart will post, The big number that is the 3rd from the right is the estimated harvest.


ALABAMA HUNTING SURVEY ESTIMATES
TURKEY - FALL & SPRING SEASONS COMBINED
Year Hunters Man-Days
Average
Man-Days Harvest
Man-Days Per
Harvest
Harvest Per
Hunter
1963-67 44,942 216,243 4.8 27,220 8.3 0.6
1968-69 32,656 205,609 6.3 21,761 9.4 0.7
1969-70 37,918 255,649 6.7 28,188 9.1 0.7
1970-71 33,114 211,361 6.4 19,290 11.0 0.6
1971-76
1976-77 42,738 319,279 7.5 41,434 7.7 1.0
1977-78 45,789 308,513 6.7 40,556 7.6 0.9
1978-79 42,674 282,180 6.6 25,115 11.2 0.6
1979-80 46,889 328,198 7.0 30,341 10.8 0.6
1980-81 51,558 358,538 7.0 28,243 12.7 0.5
1981-82 49,201 326,796 6.6 35,441 9.2 0.7
1982-83 47,817 341,853 7.1 30,138 11.3 0.6
1983-84 49,783 408,771 8.2 45,723 8.9 0.9
1984-85 50,063 397,426 7.9 48,341 8.2 1.0
1985-86 50,945 394,432 7.7 57,712 6.8 1.1
1986-87 49,384 398,468 8.1 49,245 8.1 1.0
1987-88 57,578 450,351 7.8 54,265 8.3 0.9
1988-89 44,367 381,641 8.6 50,699 7.5 1.1
1989-90 45,346 353,560 7.8 33,290 10.6 0.7
1990-91 47,300 355,600 7.5 38,400 9.3 0.8
1991-92 50,100 436,800 8.7 34,300 12.7 0.7
1992-93 45,400 389,700 8.6 33,200 11.7 0.7
1993-94 51,200 382,900 7.5 43,600 8.8 0.9
1994-95 48,800 400,400 8.2 46,200 8.7 1.0
1995-96 56,100 400,300 7.1 41,000 9.8 0.7
1996-97 52,300 361,500 6.9 42,200 8.6 0.8
1997-98 54,800 385,400 7.0 46,400 8.3 0.9
1998-99 55,100 379,500 6.9 37,000 10.3 0.7
1999-00 49,800 364,100 7.3 32,900 11.1 0.7
2000-01 56,700 396,300 7.0 45,700 8.7 0.8
2001-02 54,500 409,700 7.5 39,000 10.5 0.7
2002-03 54,000 476,500 8.8 52,200 9.1 1.0
2003-04 59,400 544,900 9.2 55,400 9.8 0.9
2004-05 59,900 576,200 9.6 58,800 9.8 1.0
2005-06 61,200 548,400 9.0 58,700 9.3 1.0
2006-07 57,500 494,600 8.6 72,100 6.9 1.3
2007-08 59,600 531,100 8.9 48,100 11.0 0.8
2008-09 54,600 451,200 8.3 37,400 12.1 0.7
2009-10 53,100 475,800 9.0 42,400 11.2 0.8
2010-11 61,100 554,500 9.1 47,400 11.7 0.8
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BrentM
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by BrentM »

I've never really trusted that survey to come up with the numbers on Alabama's turkey harvest. If they surveyed me, I would never tell them I had killed a limit because I would fear if too many people told them that they might want to cut back the limits to protect the population..........On the other hand, if I hadn't killed a turkey all year and they surveyed me I'd be ashamed to tell them that too.
Those surveys are dependent on turkey hunters telling the truth and that's an oxymoron in itself.
I wish Alabama would just go to a tag system like everybody else.

I agree with Preacher about the hens though. Protecting our hens lets us have liberal gobbler harvests year after year. If you have fifty gobblers and fifty hens on a place, chances are you'll get fifty hens bred with a chance to raise a clutch with a bunch of little gobblers in it...............If you have ten gobblers and a hundred hens on a place, chances are you'll get a hundred hens bred with a chance to raise a clutch with a bunch of little gobblers in it.
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Hobie »

Gunner and I will be out everyday from October 1 st to November 19 then again in January

For the people who never hunted fall turkeys you do not know what you are missing I personnally like it better then spring.Mr.Brynes the person I got the dog from told me I would be ruined on all other hunting once I got him and truer words were not ever spoken

I enjoy walking in the fall woods behind Gunner and seeing him work the woods and once he breaks the flock birds going every which way the barking ,wings flapping birds going every where it is something every turkey hunter should experience once in their life
Here is Gunner with a few of his falls birds from the 2011 season

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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

PCP I am not doubting that Alabama turkey harvest is not high, each and every year I would be willing to wager it would be in the top 3 along side Missouri and Wisconsin.. But that is not the point that what I posted is making.. ;)

I do not understand why the publication had harvest so low that year for Alabama it is usually 10000 birds higher, but I assume they are getting their info from the same source each year, so there had to be a reason..
BrentM wrote:I've never really trusted that survey to come up with the numbers on Alabama's turkey harvest. If they surveyed me, I would never tell them I had killed a limit because I would fear if too many people told them that they might want to cut back the limits to protect the population..........On the other hand, if I hadn't killed a turkey all year and they surveyed me I'd be ashamed to tell them that too.
Those surveys are dependent on turkey hunters telling the truth and that's an oxymoron in itself.
I wish Alabama would just go to a tag system like everybody else.
So the only dishonest hunters reside in Alabama :?: : I would have to assume a equal number of dishonest hunters, poachers reside in every state. A tag system does not resolve anything for the dishonest people nor does telecheck or check stations..
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

Hobie wrote:Gunner and I will be out everyday from October 1 st to November 19 then again in January

For the people who never hunted fall turkeys you do not know what you are missing I personnally like it better then spring.Mr.Brynes the person I got the dog from told me I would be ruined on all other hunting once I got him and truer words were not ever spoken

I enjoy walking in the fall woods behind Gunner and seeing him work the woods and once he breaks the flock birds going every which way the barking ,wings flapping birds going every where it is something every turkey hunter should experience once in their life
Here is Gunner with a few of his falls birds from the 2011 season

Hobie I wish I lived in S MI with its liberal fall bag limits.. I would have a turkey dog for sure and aim to kill my 70+ turkeys if I had the resources..
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Shooter »

I'm sorry, and maybe I'm all alone on this, but pushing Deer, Turkeys, Pheasants, or whatever with dogs is not hunting, it's shooting.
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

Shooter wrote:I'm sorry, and maybe I'm all alone on this, but pushing Deer, Turkeys, Pheasants, or whatever with dogs is not hunting, it's shooting.
I think pushing is the key word
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by BrentM »

[/quote] So the only dishonest hunters reside in Alabama :?: : I would have to assume a equal number of dishonest hunters, poachers reside in every state. A tag system does not resolve anything for the dishonest people nor does telecheck or check stations..[/quote]


I disagree...........Alabama used to be on the honor system and you could kill as many turkeys as you wanted to as long as you didn't tell the wrong people......couple years back they made you start checking a box on your license anytime you killed a turkey. If you got checked and had a turkey that hadn't been recorded on the license, you were in violation the harvest laws.......Of course some people still kill too many but some don't anymore either.
As for the survey it's kinda the same thing, you can tell them whatever you want and there are no consequences for lying. Tags would be a lot more accurate indicator.
I would think you could add up all the filled tags for a state and then add somewhere about 30% to that number to account for the guys that killed too many and the ones that never filled the tags out and you would have a pretty accurate number as to how many turkeys were killed.
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by Shooter »

Did I put my foot in my mouth again?? Sorry, I've never heard of turkey dogs before, so do not know what is involved.
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

BrentM wrote:
So the only dishonest hunters reside in Alabama :?: : I would have to assume a equal number of dishonest hunters, poachers reside in every state. A tag system does not resolve anything for the dishonest people nor does telecheck or check stations..[/quote]


I disagree...........Alabama used to be on the honor system and you could kill as many turkeys as you wanted to as long as you didn't tell the wrong people......couple years back they made you start checking a box on your license anytime you killed a turkey. If you got checked and had a turkey that hadn't been recorded on the license, you were in violation the harvest laws.......Of course some people still kill too many but some don't anymore either.
As for the survey it's kinda the same thing, you can tell them whatever you want and there are no consequences for lying. Tags would be a lot more accurate indicator.
I would think you could add up all the filled tags for a state and then add somewhere about 30% to that number to account for the guys that killed too many and the ones that never filled the tags out and you would have a pretty accurate number as to how many turkeys were killed.[/quote]

I think you are missing my point...

As for your 30 percent statistic it may be accurate may be not but in any state regardless of tag/check system the same 30 percent could hold if that was accurate..
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

Shooter wrote:Did I put my foot in my mouth again?? Sorry, I've never heard of turkey dogs before, so do not know what is involved.
Turkey dogs are used in the fall to break a flock.. Some hunters will shoot on the flush if they are close to the dogs.. But the dogs are mainly use to flush the flock and said hunter sets up and calls the broken flock back in... IN a nutshell, others could probably describe better.
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poorcountrypreacher
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by poorcountrypreacher »

>>>PCP I am not doubting that Alabama turkey harvest is not high, each and every year I would be willing to wager it would be in the top 3 along side Missouri and Wisconsin.. But that is not the point that what I posted is making..

I do not understand why the publication had harvest so low that year for Alabama it is usually 10000 birds higher, but I assume they are getting their info from the same source each year, so there had to be a reason.. <<<

I don't know where that publication got that number either. Obviously, not from the State of AL DCNR; guess they just made it up. :)

>>>I've never really trusted that survey to come up with the numbers on Alabama's turkey harvest. If they surveyed me, I would never tell them I had killed a limit because I would fear if too many people told them that they might want to cut back the limits to protect the population..........On the other hand, if I hadn't killed a turkey all year and they surveyed me I'd be ashamed to tell them that too.
Those surveys are dependent on turkey hunters telling the truth and that's an oxymoron in itself.
I wish Alabama would just go to a tag system like everybody else.<<<

Brent, I've had this argument a dozen times on aldeer. Dr. Ditchkoff and every other biologist or researcher in any discipline will tell you that a random survey is accurate within the % error that is stated in the survey, provided that its done correctly. I can't imagine why you would lie on a survey like that. I got one 2 years ago, and I had killed a limit, and I said I did. There are very few limits killed each year, and the only people with any real incentive to lie would be the outlaws who killed over the limit, and there really aren't that many of them. Random sampling works; every form of science uses it in some manner.

And AL is still just as much on the honor system as it ever was for a season limit. All you gotta do is print out a new Harvest Record and start over. As best I can tell, there has NEVER been a ticket written to anybody for exceeding the season limit for turkeys. A law that has never led to a single arrest doesn't have many teeth in it.

But I think you have missed my whole point - without tags, without closing the season at noon, without limiting hunters to 1 or 2 gobblers per season, without having just a 2 or 3 week season, without all kinds of silly regulations, AL still has the highest turkey harvest in the nation. At least, the state's statistics indicate they do. So what we are doing is working, and its working great! Why wouldn't every state want to copy us, instead of AL hunters wanting us to be like states that kill 10,000 turkeys a year? I just don't get it.

Sorry to take the thread far away from fall hunting. I'll try to shut up now. :)

A good evening to all!
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by BrentM »

I didn't miss the point I just kinda got off topic. Least I don't think I missed the point anyway. My point (and I think your point) was that one reason Alabama has such a good gobbler harvest year after year is that we protect our hens and let the turkey factory keep producing.
I don't want anything changed about Alabama's system either (other than I wish us folks in North Alabama would get the first ten days in May, at least on the WMA's that they've decided not to open until two weeks after the state season starts) and I couldn't care less if we use tags or not, it's not gonna have much effect on what anybody does. I just think if you really want to get an accurate count of how many turkeys are actually killed you can get closer to the real number if you implement a tagging system as opposed to a survey................that's a whole different subject though. Sorry I got so far off track.
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by hawglips »

GA takes the same approach AL does -- generous season, generous bag limits, no tags, with no fall season. They have a lot of turkeys in GA also. And I can certainly understand folks liking that approach.

On the other hand, if I lived in AL, I'd trade a tag or two in the spring for fall hunting any day. NC doesn't have a fall season, so I have to go out of state to hunt. Last year, I hunted during 7 months out of the year, thanks to fall. Spring or fall, there is no better type of hunting than turkey hunting. Any time of year that I can be in the woods sneaking around making turkey noises, is a good time of year to do it. And given the choice between doing that and sitting in a deer stand, or pretty much anything else, that's what I want to do.

I can't wait for October to get here...
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Re: fall hunters?

Post by ICDEDTURKES »

poorcountrypreacher wrote:
But I think you have missed my whole point - without tags, without closing the season at noon, without limiting hunters to 1 or 2 gobblers per season, without having just a 2 or 3 week season, without all kinds of silly regulations, AL still has the highest turkey harvest in the nation. At least, the state's statistics indicate they do. So what we are doing is working, and its working great! Why wouldn't every state want to copy us, instead of AL hunters wanting us to be like states that kill 10,000 turkeys a year? I just don't get it.

Sorry to take the thread far away from fall hunting. I'll try to shut up now. :)

A good evening to all!
Because other states systems are working as well and Wisconsin with a liberal fall season has higher spring kill totals than Alabama.. Alabama does not have the only turkey management plan that works.
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