Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Talk about handloading, patterns, and commercial shells/ammo here.
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Johndoe
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Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 2nd, 2014, 2:40 pm

I'm gonna start this thread in an effort to give Facts and not opinion to loading TSS.
There will be some opinion and that's ok. But the type of opinion is key.

First. If you plan to load. Read and research a bunch before you ever load a shell. An understanding of how pressure and burn rates an all other factors work. Loading can very well be dangerous if not done properly. There are many here on this sight who will help. They may not give away load recipes but will help. Ask, you will see.

Feel free to add your own.


John
Last edited by Johndoe on May 2nd, 2014, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Johndoe
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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 2nd, 2014, 2:44 pm

Ok first myth.
TSS use is in strong decline and looks to continue.

Fact
TSS use is higher than ever. It has doubled each of the last 3 years.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Johndoe
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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 2nd, 2014, 2:55 pm

Myth#2
Loading TSS is dangerous.

Fact
All loading can be dangerous. TSS has nothing to do with it. A person can load lead, steel, Hevishot, or TSS and hurt himself. It's not the shot. It's the guy filling the hull.
Now Hal just happens to spend a bunch of time and money having his recipes tested and posts the results. If you follow the recipes to the letter, they are no different than any load published by any of the powder makers or loading manuals.

JD
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Grumpy
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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Grumpy » May 2nd, 2014, 3:26 pm

I don't reload anymore and with the MagBlends sold in 5 paks and our one turkey a year season couple with the crackshot that I am, I buy them at a 5 yrs. supply at a time.

If I was reloading I would talk with Hal, seems like a Hal of a guy. :lol:
I was not his father but he was my son,,MAK IV, 10-15-1993 - 4-22-2007
"Rest in Peace my Little Buddy"

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by redarrow » May 2nd, 2014, 4:00 pm

Fiction: TSS is way over priced

Fact: At approx $6.50 per shell it comparable to Nitros.
Put you plans in the nail scarred hands.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Shooter » May 2nd, 2014, 5:14 pm

Johndoe wrote:Myth#2
Loading TSS is dangerous.

Fact
All loading can be dangerous. TSS has nothing to do with it. A person can load lead, steel, Hevishot, or TSS and hurt himself. It's not the shot. It's the guy filling the hull.
Now Hal just happens to spend a bunch of time and money having his recipes tested and posts the results. If you follow the recipes to the letter, they are no different than any load published by any of the powder makers or loading manuals.

JD
FACT! TSS is safer than all of the Hevishot and regular HTLs. If you mess up by just a grain or two with Hevishot, you're gonna have problems. TSS is more forgiving with pressures.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Shooter » May 2nd, 2014, 5:16 pm

TSS has a shorter shot column, which in turn creates less friction from the wad to the barrel surface.
Which in turn makes for less chamber pressures.
Last edited by Shooter on May 3rd, 2014, 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by turkeybuster » May 2nd, 2014, 5:45 pm

Fact: Tss has turned the 410 into a turkey gun! without a handicap!!

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 2nd, 2014, 6:04 pm

Ok guys. Those are the opinions I want to leave out of this thread.
I just want solid info and facts. Please.

TB yours is fine.

JD
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Jamey » May 2nd, 2014, 6:22 pm

Due to getting so many questions from forum members and also the fact that very few turkey hunters I knew understood even the basics of how different shot types compared to each other in performance, I wrote a simple article about the subject several years ago. Not much detail here but seemed to help a lot for folks that had no clue about shot differences.

http://www.grandslamnetwork.com/modern-turkey-loads/
ImageImage

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Spuriosity » May 2nd, 2014, 6:38 pm

Jamey wrote:Due to getting so many questions from forum members and also the fact that very few turkey hunters I knew understood even the basics of how different shot types compared to each other in performance, I wrote a simple article about the subject several years ago. Not much detail here but seemed to help a lot for folks that had no clue about shot differences.

http://www.grandslamnetwork.com/modern-turkey-loads/
Excellent article.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by jasonb53 » May 2nd, 2014, 9:45 pm

A very good read for me since most of the talk I hear about reloading might as well be in Chinese because I don't understand it at all

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by redarrow » May 3rd, 2014, 7:28 am

Fiction; I am not a real turkey hunter because I handload TSS that shoots like a rifle and I need to be taken under someones wing.

Fact:TSS is for progressive hunters who choose to be all they can be in the turkey woods.
Put you plans in the nail scarred hands.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 3rd, 2014, 7:33 am

Myth. TSS is Radioactive.

Fact. There is a lots of scientific mumbo-jumbo about this on the web but the real answer is "No It Is Not. If you question me, Google it.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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redarrow
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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by redarrow » May 3rd, 2014, 7:36 am

Fact: TSS allows the handloader to use smaller shot size.This increases the pellet count.Increased pellet count decreases the likely hood of blown patterns and missed or wounded gobblers.
Put you plans in the nail scarred hands.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 3rd, 2014, 7:45 am

Myth. The seller of TSS does so for Profit.

Fact. Oh crap that is a fact. Profit? What an ugly word.
The Fact is 99.9% of everything you buy is for profit. Why must this be any different.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 3rd, 2014, 8:11 am

Myth. TSS scores barrels and chokes.

Fact. All HTL shot can score a barrel or choke. However anyone who actually has loaded any knows that almost all Hals loads use HTL wads and a Mylar wrap. The VP90 is so thick you don't need Mylar. Also, the cushion in the wad of each load allows the shot to "set back" into the wad therefor eliminating bore and choke contact. Now, chokes that stop the wad early may suffer, but as my "Rants" have suggested. You don't need those chokes.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by toasty » May 3rd, 2014, 8:02 pm

Per request as it pertains to ballistics of TSS.

Fact: KPY Shotshell ballistics was created before I had ever heard of TSS. Several materials, including TSS were added after the initial design of the software. Downrange energy, energy density, and penetration is calculated based on only the density and the shot size. The only reason to you a material is to select a density. The model assumes the shot is a sphere, if anything, it may exaggerate the performance of shot that gets deforms on setback like chilled lead.

Myth: KPY Shotshell exaggerates TSS performance more than other shot types.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by pedro » May 3rd, 2014, 9:14 pm

Fact: TSS is non-toxic and can be used to hunt waterfowl and other game where nontoxic shot is required. Also is magnetic.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Southern Sportsman » May 4th, 2014, 12:35 pm

Myth: Even selling just a few TSS loads to a buddy will be a violation of ATF regulation and you'll be in serious legal trouble.

Fact: The ATF does regulate the manufacture and sale of ammunition, however transferring a small number of loaded shells is not a violation. Just like buying and selling a few guns - even if you make a little in the process - does not mean you violate laws requiring dealers to have licenses.

Federal law prohibits anyone except a licensed manufacturer from "engag[ing] in the business of . . . manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce." (18 U.SC. section 922(a)(B)).

"Engaged in the business" means: "as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured." (18 U.S.C. section 921(21)(B)).

"With the principal objective of livelihood and proft" means "that the intent underlying the sale or disposition . . . is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents." (18 U.S.C. section 921(22)).

SO -- unless you sell hand loaded ammunition with the PRINCIPAL objective of livelihood and profit, you are not violating federal law if you sell 5 or 6 shells to a buddy - even if you make a few dollars for your trouble. (now if you were selling them by the hundred, you would probably be getting on thin ice). Note, I am NOT saying that loaders should sell their loads to anybody. It CAN carry certain personal liability risks if one of your loads blows up and injures someone. I just want to clarify that if you sell a few loads to someone you know who does not themselves load -- the ATF is not going to kick down your door. Additionally, any website where you may communicate with others about your loads would definitely NOT be in any legal trouble.

Again, I am NOT advising anyone to sell handloaded ammunition. I'm just trying to clear up a legal misconception about how federal law applies. "I don't sell my handloads, but would be glad to give you advice on getting started" is probably the best personal rule a loader can have. But the main reason should be personal liability, not federal law. I have loaded around 50 shells this year for personal friends and they have repaid me for the materials. I have not violated federal law.
I go stubbornly into error by myself, and reach my own fallacious conclusions using my own faulty data. ~Tom Kelly

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by hawglips » May 5th, 2014, 10:00 am

Myth: TSS is hard on your teeth

Fact: Well, I would think that's true. And the same truth applies to most any other shot, including lead, steel, hevishot, heavyweight, etc. I have eaten a lot of turkeys killed with #9s and #9.5s, and have yet to hurt a tooth. But I did chip a molar last year on a #6 lead pellet I bit down on while eating a squirrel. And I chipped the corner of an incisor a few years back on a bone fragment while eating rabbit. But it wasn't really noticeable so it hasn't cost me any dentist money.

The thing that about it is that in spite of the dense patterns, I find very few small TSS shot in the turkeys at all. So, either I can't find them and I and my family are not chewing our food good enough and are swallowing them (glad they are non-toxic if that's the case), or the shot is going clear through the turkey most of the time. I've found two pellets in the three turkeys I've cleaned so far this year, and that's about par in my experience.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » May 10th, 2014, 9:58 am

Myth: TSS is for long range sniping and folks who can't call a turkey.

Fact: The first load got from Hal was Buck Shot load. I wanted one kids could shoot and have a better chance at clean kill with less recoil. I also wanted a load they could use in older 2 3/4" chamber guns. I hope to have results soon on a 1oz 4mm load at 1400fps.
2nd TSS turns subguage guns in to lower recoil killers for kids. Hal, myself, and others have lighter lower recoil loads that are easily 40yd + a fudge factor loads.
I cannot speak for everyone. My initial work with TSS was for kids. I will continue this trend.

JD
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Johndoe » January 6th, 2015, 4:55 pm

Well. We made it to 2015 and still no injuries or deaths from loading TSS.
I AM NOT SURPRISED.
Image

There are no numbers on any of my clocks below 8. Then all of a sudden, 2 days before turkey season they appear. Then right after the season they disappear.
What's up with that

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by Bustinbeards » February 26th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Myth: loading TSS is a confusing and difficult process that needs lots of expensive reloading equipment.
Reality is, With a scale, roll crimper, drill and a few simple tools you can roll your own shells for a season in less than 30 min.
Fact: loading TSS is a simple and easy process, you just have to be consistent and pay attention to what you are doing on each step on each shell.

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Re: Hand Loading TSS Fact and Fiction

Post by hawglips » February 26th, 2015, 6:32 pm

Johndoe wrote:Well. We made it to 2015 and still no injuries or deaths from loading TSS.
I AM NOT SURPRISED.
Shotguns and shotgun shells are inherently dangerous. So, caution is required with any shotgun activity, including loading your own shells. You have to practice simple safety. And if you do that, your chances of any sort of accident are slim to none. Just follow the recipes and common sense, and enjoy rolling your own!

TSS might be the safest of shot material to work with. Less dense hard shot is tougher to maintain safe chamber pressure levels with. With lead, most folks drop the powder charge and payload using bushings which is an estimate at best. But we are very precise with TSS, as each shell is weighed out by hand, so the chances of a mistake are minimized.

Safe loading and shooting!

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