penetration tests

Talk about handloading, patterns, and commercial shells/ammo here.
User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

penetration tests

Post by hawglips » May 23rd, 2012, 8:23 am

Most of you have probably seen this, but I figured it was a good thread to have here in the handloaders section for reference.

A while back, I did some penetration tests using sheet metal in order to compare the relative penetration strength of various shot types and loads. I also borrowed from tests a friend did, and organized the results for informational purposes, showing the relative penetration ability of various size/density/velocity shot for those that care about such things.

For easier reference, I broke them down into five groups based on the percentages of pellets striking the tin passed completely through.

At 40 yds,
group #1: zero or less than 5% pellet pass through;
group #2: 10-25% pass through
group #3: 30-50% pass through;
group #4: 50% -75% pass through;
group #5: >90% pass through.

Note that the brown sheet metal was slightly thicker than the gray, so the comparison between the two different colored tin is not exact.

GROUP #1: zero to less than 10% pellet pass through

#9 lead at 20 yds
(high brass Rio)
Image

#6 copper plated lead at 40 yds
Image

#4 copper plated lead (high velocity) at 40 yds
(Federal Hi-Velocity Magnum 1-7/8 oz. turkey load)
Image


GROUP #2: 10-25% pass through

#7 Hevi-shot (1200fps) at 40 yds
(Nitros #7s)
Image

#6 Hevishot at 40 yds (1300fps duck loads)
Image


GROUP #3: 30-50% pass through

#9 18g/cc tungsten (1037 fps) at 40 yds
Image


GROUP #4: 50% to 75% pellet pass through

#6 Hevi-13 at 40 yds -- the original 13g/cc stuff, no longer available(1090 fps)
Image

#9 18g/cc tungsten at 40 yds (1180fps)
Image


GROUP #5: >90% pass through

#5 Hi Density (Win XR) at 40 yds (1300fps)
Image

#7 15-16g/cc tungsten at 40 yds (1180fps) (note the tin is incorrectly labeled 7.5)
Image

#8 18g/cc tungsten at 40 yds (1180 fps)
Image

#7 18g/cc tungsten at 40 yds (1180 fps)
Image



And these are some 18g/cc 9x8s (1180fps) at longer yardage just for fun.

18g/cc tungsten 9x8s at 50 yds
Image


18g/cc tungsten 9x8s at 60 yds
Image[/QUOTE]

User avatar
vaturkey
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3477
Joined: June 27th, 2011, 9:54 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by vaturkey » May 23rd, 2012, 9:17 am

Good info Hawglips !

Have you ever did any penetration test with Fed HW loads ?


vaturkey :struttin:

User avatar
redarrow
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 5143
Joined: October 2nd, 2011, 8:26 am
Location: S E Michigan

Re: penetration tests

Post by redarrow » May 23rd, 2012, 9:31 am

#8 18g/cc tungsten at 40 yds (1180 fps) WOW. That will put ol toms nuggets in his watch pocket for sure. Great info. Thanks.
Put you plans in the nail scarred hands.

User avatar
Turkey Talker
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3699
Joined: June 7th, 2011, 8:20 pm
Location: Green Swamp Florida

Re: penetration tests

Post by Turkey Talker » May 23rd, 2012, 9:32 am

Cool info and test!
I opened this post with hopes of the testing being on hot women.
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by hawglips » May 23rd, 2012, 7:12 pm

vaturkey wrote:Good info Hawglips !

Have you ever did any penetration test with Fed HW loads ?


vaturkey :struttin:
Yes, group no. 5 had a handload of HWT #7s but not an actual Federal shell.

jrseale82
Posts: 215
Joined: April 24th, 2012, 9:49 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by jrseale82 » May 23rd, 2012, 10:54 pm

I was in a discussion today with a man who didnt believe a #8 TSS shot was more effective than a #4 lead shot. I need to show him this.

User avatar
Turkey Talker
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3699
Joined: June 7th, 2011, 8:20 pm
Location: Green Swamp Florida

Re: penetration tests

Post by Turkey Talker » May 24th, 2012, 6:56 am

jrseale82 wrote:I was in a discussion today with a man who didnt believe a #8 TSS shot was more effective than a #4 lead shot. I need to show him this.
Due to the testing being done on different materials, I would say the test is inconclusive to some degree. That could be the other guys argument.
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Spuriosity
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2299
Joined: April 23rd, 2012, 9:12 pm
Location: Western North Carolina

Re: penetration tests

Post by Spuriosity » May 24th, 2012, 9:44 pm

Turkey Talker wrote:
jrseale82 wrote:I was in a discussion today with a man who didnt believe a #8 TSS shot was more effective than a #4 lead shot. I need to show him this.
Due to the testing being done on different materials, I would say the test is inconclusive to some degree. That could be the other guys argument.
He obviously has no experience with TSS 8s or there would be no argument.

User avatar
Shooter
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 5401
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 12:29 pm
Location: Deep South, Middle, TN

Re: penetration tests

Post by Shooter » May 24th, 2012, 11:16 pm

These tests prove a lot to me, I'm just glad Hawg did it before me, save me a lot of time and work,...lol

User avatar
GLS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2324
Joined: May 16th, 2012, 10:29 am
Location: Lowcountry, GA

Re: penetration tests

Post by GLS » May 25th, 2012, 5:00 am

Without regard to the photograph of the T8s showing a red surface, look at the T9 photos which appear to be the same tin plated surfaces as the lead #4 and #6 size shot tin plated surfaces which showed dents with no penetration. All of the T9 photos of shots at different velocities display penetration. The photo of the T8s is consistent with the results shown with T9, but with a difference being bigger holes. This is also consistent with the other high velocity non-TSS loads with HTL. Another telling photograph is the shot of lead 9s at 20 yards compared with T9s at 40 yards. These results demontrate why anti-tank sabot rounds use a tungsten rod rather than a lead rod. However, turkey's aren't tin plated and lead is still effective at 40 yards. However, the penetration capablility of tungsten versus lead allows smaller shot in smaller payloads and smaller gauges to be used effectively and ethically at traditional maximum lead ranges with a built-in extension of effective range for underestimated distances. Buy tungsten shot while it is affordable and available.

User avatar
GOLD HUNTER
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 4606
Joined: September 1st, 2011, 9:07 pm
Location: BIG LICK VA.

Re: penetration tests

Post by GOLD HUNTER » May 25th, 2012, 2:15 pm

Great work and post Hal

Here is how i test my TSS loads for penetration ......... :thumbup:

Last edited by GOLD HUNTER on January 31st, 2013, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LET'S GO TROUT FISHING

outlaw
Posts: 270
Joined: July 5th, 2011, 9:12 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by outlaw » June 27th, 2012, 3:51 pm

great info that tss is some wicked stuff :thumbup:

yelpy
Posts: 174
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 10:47 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by yelpy » July 15th, 2012, 9:06 pm

outlaw wrote:great info that tss is some wicked stuff :thumbup:

Yes it is.

User avatar
Shooter
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 5401
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 12:29 pm
Location: Deep South, Middle, TN

Re: penetration tests

Post by Shooter » July 15th, 2012, 9:45 pm

Glad you made it over Yelpy. I was gonna let you know where we all were, but got booted before could PM you.

yelpy
Posts: 174
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 10:47 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by yelpy » July 20th, 2012, 8:12 pm

Shooter wrote:Glad you made it over Yelpy. I was gonna let you know where we all were, but got booted before could PM you.
:turkeywave: Glad to be here and thanks for looking out for me guys. I have been doing some reading so far and finding my way around the site. I will enjoy and appreciate all that is posted by you guys. Surely wouldn't want to miss out on all the great information from the experianced that are willing to share.

User avatar
HunterGKS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2386
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 5:12 pm
Location: North Central Ohio

Re: penetration tests

Post by HunterGKS » January 31st, 2013, 6:22 pm

Hal, I was stumbling around & ran across this string. That is good info for all to have available. Was this the same testing that was posted on the NWTF site that Todd & Bullet were involved in?? I remember some kid stating that just because the metal was penetrated didn't mean it would kill a turkey.
George

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR BODY STILL. YOUR HEART JUST HASN'T CAUGHT ON.

.17 = NITRO OF THE RIMFIRE WORLD


Image

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

penetration tests

Post by hawglips » January 31st, 2013, 6:33 pm

No, they did something totally different.

User avatar
HunterGKS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2386
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 5:12 pm
Location: North Central Ohio

Re: penetration tests

Post by HunterGKS » January 31st, 2013, 6:49 pm

It's probably been what, 3-4 years ago?? I remember they used corrugated metal & chickens. Not sure if they used both during the same test or 2 different tests. I guess their testing wasn't as scientific/detailed as yours. It's hell when you can't remember everything, What was it we were talking about?? :?: :?:
George

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR BODY STILL. YOUR HEART JUST HASN'T CAUGHT ON.

.17 = NITRO OF THE RIMFIRE WORLD


Image

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by hawglips » February 1st, 2013, 9:11 am

The way I recall that one was that there was someone arguing that #5 plated lead would penetrate as well as #5 hevishot, so they conducted a test shooting the butterballs or chickens and shared what they found.

User avatar
HunterGKS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2386
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 5:12 pm
Location: North Central Ohio

Re: penetration tests

Post by HunterGKS » February 1st, 2013, 2:12 pm

Hal, That was 1 of their tests but, like you, I don't remember the specifics. I'm almost positive they also did some tests using corrugated metal. I'd try to find them but the search is all fubar'ed & is useless. That was when a kid was trying to say that HW wouldn't penetrate a turkeys head & that HW 7s wouldn't kill a turkey at all. We all know how much BS that is.

Anyway, thx.
George

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR BODY STILL. YOUR HEART JUST HASN'T CAUGHT ON.

.17 = NITRO OF THE RIMFIRE WORLD


Image

User avatar
Shooter
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 5401
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 12:29 pm
Location: Deep South, Middle, TN

Re: penetration tests

Post by Shooter » February 1st, 2013, 3:34 pm

I am not an Einstein by any means, but I'm pretty sure if those pellets will penetrate a sheet of tin, they will penetrate a turkeys noggin.

User avatar
HunterGKS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2386
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 5:12 pm
Location: North Central Ohio

Re: penetration tests

Post by HunterGKS » February 1st, 2013, 5:36 pm

Shooter wrote:I am not an Einstein by any means, but I'm pretty sure if those pellets will penetrate a sheet of tin, they will penetrate a turkeys noggin.
Without a doubt. But, there was a punk-assed kid trying to show he was a badass & get in the "crew" that tried to start crap at every turn. All he managed to do was show what a dumbass he really was.

BTW, Can I say "ass" here without Billie smacking me with his ban-hammer??
George

YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR BODY STILL. YOUR HEART JUST HASN'T CAUGHT ON.

.17 = NITRO OF THE RIMFIRE WORLD


Image

User avatar
aristico
Posts: 343
Joined: September 19th, 2011, 5:16 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by aristico » February 13th, 2014, 7:59 am

Hey Hawg when you say Hevi 13 6 no longer available do you mean like the old white hull loads?

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by hawglips » February 13th, 2014, 11:25 am

aristico wrote:Hey Hawg when you say Hevi 13 6 no longer available do you mean like the old white hull loads?
Hevi-13 is no longer 13g/cc. It's plain hevishot - 12g/cc.

User avatar
aristico
Posts: 343
Joined: September 19th, 2011, 5:16 pm

Re: penetration tests

Post by aristico » February 13th, 2014, 11:47 am

I didn't explain myself correctly....would the old white hull loads be 13cc?

Why did they go down in weight?

Post Reply

Return to “Handloading, Ammo & Patterns”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests