20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Talk about handloading, patterns, and commercial shells/ammo here.
Post Reply
Eclipseman
Posts: 22
Joined: February 7th, 2018, 12:51 pm

20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Eclipseman » February 9th, 2018, 7:21 am

Hello all. I came to this forum mainly because I wanted to start loading TSS and for some reason it is "frowned" upon at the OldGob forum. Anyways, look forward to being in a forum and not being chastised. In my mind there are a few reasons to use TSS, mainly being able to up your pellet count while still maintaining enough momentum to kill your bird at a certain distance. For example, the old adage of you want 100 pellets in a 10inch circle to make an ethical kill at whatever yard you intend to shoot. I used to pattern my turkey gun from 10-50 yards. At 50 yards I was getting about 140ish with longbeard 6s which works but the pattern at 20 yards was extremely tight. I then tried HEVI #7s which the pattern at 20 yards was MUCH better than longbeards and still had about 140-160 at 50 yards so this was great. Well the problem is I need to order these through a gunshop, we are not allowed to order ammo online here in NY (sucks!). The gunshops basically rapes me on prices which was ok but the waiting was brutal. I have decided to load my own TSS loads. I am an avid loader for my rifles and pistols, so while shotgun reloading is new to me, I get the basics.

Now that this long story is over, I will finally get to my point haha. Why are people going from 12ga down to 20 ga shotguns? Wasn't the whole point of TSS to keep pellet counts high which will allow for better patterns, especially at longer ranges? Seems like by dropping down to 20ga you are going right back to similar pellet counts as full blown 3in or 3.5in magnums using #5 or #6 shot...I guess if you want a lighter weight gun with lower recoil....?

User avatar
Spuriosity
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2329
Joined: April 23rd, 2012, 9:12 pm
Location: Western North Carolina

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Spuriosity » February 9th, 2018, 7:54 am

Show me a 12 ga 3 or 3.5" gun that will put 300 5s in a 10" circle at 40 yds and I will eat your hat. Or, show me a #6 lead pellet that has the energy to kill a turkey at 70 yds and I will eat your hat. A 20 ga shooting 1&5/8 oz of TSS 9s will easily do both those things with lots less recoil and a lot less weight to lug over hill and dell. So there is your answer.

And BTW, welcome to the best turkey forum on the web. A great number of us used to post our TSS knowledge on the "Ancient Male Turkey" forum only to be told we were no longer welcome. So now, all that knowledge is here.

User avatar
turkeyinstrut
Posts: 489
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 11:32 am

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by turkeyinstrut » February 9th, 2018, 8:04 am

What Spuriosity said.

Eclipseman
Posts: 22
Joined: February 7th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Eclipseman » February 9th, 2018, 8:14 am

Spuriosity wrote:
February 9th, 2018, 7:54 am
Show me a 12 ga 3 or 3.5" gun that will put 300 5s in a 10" circle at 40 yds and I will eat your hat. Or, show me a #6 lead pellet that has the energy to kill a turkey at 70 yds and I will eat your hat. A 20 ga shooting 1&5/8 oz of TSS 9s will easily do both those things with lots less recoil and a lot less weight to lug over hill and dell. So there is your answer.

And BTW, welcome to the best turkey forum on the web. A great number of us used to post our TSS knowledge on the "Ancient Male Turkey" forum only to be told we were no longer welcome. So now, all that knowledge is here.
I know what you mean but that is not what I mean. What I meant was TSS is better than lead. I get that...but why not use TSS in 12ga over 20ga. The whole point of going to TSS is to gain distance while using small pellet size to allow for higher hit amounts, so while I understand a 20ga with TSS is BETTER than a 12ga with standard loads, why not use a 12ga with TSS...seems like it would be better than both!

User avatar
turkeyinstrut
Posts: 489
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 11:32 am

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by turkeyinstrut » February 9th, 2018, 8:51 am

I suppose it just depends on how far you want to kill a turkey, I am shooting a 20 ga. now with 1 5/8 oz. of TSS 9.5's and it will cleanly take a turkey way farther than I want to shoot one. With TSS most 410's are legitimate 50 yard guns now so it boils down to how far you want to shoot one.

Yule
Posts: 57
Joined: March 9th, 2017, 9:41 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Yule » February 9th, 2018, 8:56 am

Being a turkey hunter and now in my mid 50's, I was looking for a way to get improved performance and tote a lighter gun. So first I hunted with a youth 870 ( 20 ga. ) and now with a youth Savage 555 ( 28 ga. ) - TSS gives me all the needed performance, in a smaller package. So if you like your 12 ga, by all means go that route. My guess is, after a little while, the rifle reloader in you will want to start experimenting. Believe me, most of the folks here started loading TSS in 12 ga. Over time, they started testing TSS in their kids gun and the story goes on....and we like the challenge....
So, if you want the maximum amount of shot, that puts the most holes in the target, go with the 12. Also, we only shoot turkeys at 40 yards, or less. " Call up close and shoot em in the face!"

Fatmo
Posts: 313
Joined: May 3rd, 2015, 5:34 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Fatmo » February 9th, 2018, 9:14 am

I believe the TSS started due to people wanting to optimize their patterns and found out you could do just that with even much lighter smaller calibers. The range, lethality and straight up over kill came later. The reason I setup a 20 was the weight of the gun and a better pattern than lead out of my 12. I also purchased a 12 that I couldn't get a decent pattern out of. I have a little more open choke than most TSS chokes but most of my shots are between 20-30 yards. I'm more than happy with the pattern between 20-40yards ( Not super tight but very even )

Eclipseman
Posts: 22
Joined: February 7th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Eclipseman » February 9th, 2018, 9:27 am

ok I understand what you are all saying now. Unfortunately here in NY we are limited to #8 size shot on turkey's, so a bit less pellet count than 9s and 9.5s. I currently only own 12ga so I will start with this. If it seems to be overkill at 50 yards and in, I'm definitely interested in 20ga for a lighter weight setup. Recoil does not bother me but if I can haul around a lighter weight gun I'm all for it!

User avatar
kythunter
Posts: 85
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 12:24 pm
Location: Western Kentucky

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by kythunter » February 9th, 2018, 9:37 am

You will be very pleased with TSS 8's in a 12ga. I load and shoot 9's in a 12ga and load 8's for a few friends and the 8's are ridiculous. Some prefer 9's over 8's can't go wrong with either in a 12ga. 2 - 2.25oz 8's in a 12ga is way overkill but fun to hunt with. Better see what your pattern does at 30 yards you'd be surprised how tight the 8's pattern at close range.
I like a 12ga myself but gonna load 20ga this year and try it out. Going with 9's in the 20.

yella yelper
Posts: 56
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 7:04 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by yella yelper » February 9th, 2018, 12:46 pm

Eclipseman wrote:ok I understand what you are all saying now. Unfortunately here in NY we are limited to #8 size shot on turkey's, so a bit less pellet count than 9s and 9.5s. I currently only own 12ga so I will start with this. If it seems to be overkill at 50 yards and in, I'm definitely interested in 20ga for a lighter weight setup. Recoil does not bother me but if I can haul around a lighter weight gun I'm all for it!
Is a game warden going to cut your shells open, pull out his micrometer, and measure each pellet? He ought to have reasonable cause to do something like that. Load 9's and keep your mouth shut.

But the way I understand it, 8's are more optional in 12ga and 9's in 20 when you get to splitting hairs.

Eclipseman
Posts: 22
Joined: February 7th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Eclipseman » February 9th, 2018, 1:07 pm

yella yelper wrote:
February 9th, 2018, 12:46 pm
Eclipseman wrote:ok I understand what you are all saying now. Unfortunately here in NY we are limited to #8 size shot on turkey's, so a bit less pellet count than 9s and 9.5s. I currently only own 12ga so I will start with this. If it seems to be overkill at 50 yards and in, I'm definitely interested in 20ga for a lighter weight setup. Recoil does not bother me but if I can haul around a lighter weight gun I'm all for it!
Is a game warden going to cut your shells open, pull out his micrometer, and measure each pellet? He ought to have reasonable cause to do something like that. Load 9's and keep your mouth shut.

But the way I understand it, 8's are more optional in 12ga and 9's in 20 when you get to splitting hairs.
yes most often game wardens are really only going after someone if they have probable cause, however, the ones around me.....if they hear you shoot....they WILL come and investigate. If they find you, they will 100% ask to see your setup to make sure everything is legit. He will not have a micrometer, but if he digs a pellet out of the bird OR does cut open my rounds, he will know it is small shot and will measure back at the station. I actually have a friend who had this scenario happen to him except the warden did not have to cut open is rounds as he was using factory loads with the size shot printed right on them. I know it would be a small chance that it could happen, maybe even almost impossible...but if #8s will do a bang up job than I really don't see the point in risking it.

User avatar
hoobilly
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 4312
Joined: August 15th, 2011, 9:15 pm
Location: Argos Indiana

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by hoobilly » February 9th, 2018, 3:58 pm

I use a 12, 20 & starting this year a 28. I will hunt with all my turkey guns and use tss in all.

Some use the tss in sub gages for the weight savings. I like the coolness factor of loading my own and killing turkeys.

Sub gages is where tss shines as it makes them killing machines where 15 years ago only a 12ga could ethically kill one at yardages the 410 can now smoke a gobblers head.


Welcome to Gobblernation!

User avatar
GLS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2363
Joined: May 16th, 2012, 10:29 am
Location: Lowcountry, GA

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by GLS » February 9th, 2018, 4:40 pm

The 1 5/8 #8 TSS load has plenty of 10" ring density at 40 yards and beyond. My 13/16 oz. .410 (3 lbs. 3 oz.) will put 120 #8 in the 10 ring at 40 yards. I got rid of my SBE 12 five seasons ago. Dead is dead and I drove my Chevy to the levee, etc. Gil

User avatar
Turkinator
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1225
Joined: May 13th, 2013, 5:25 pm
Location: southern onio

Re: 20ga vs 12ga with TSS?

Post by Turkinator » February 9th, 2018, 6:17 pm

Either a 12 or a 20 will make you a happy camper.

Post Reply

Return to “Handloading, Ammo & Patterns”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 6 guests