The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

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decoykrvr
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The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by decoykrvr » January 27th, 2018, 11:57 am

I started turkey hunting when there was nothing commercially available designated as a "Turkey Shotshell". My favorite nickle-plated duck/goose 3" high velocity reloads accounted for quite a few gobblers and jakes. Ben Rogers Lee advocated "body shooting" gobblers primarily with 2's and 4's, and when Federal came out w/ a copper-plated 3', 2 ounce load we thought that we had the ultimate gobbler medicine. I was cleaning out my shotgun shell closet the other day and found boxes of shells which are a chronology of commercial turkey loads from the old Remington Duplex loads, Winchesters, Federals and Activs, the nexxus of tungsten based loads, Federals, Polywads, green Remingtons and EM offerings to my current TSS reloads. I've saved a bunch of my old patterns which were evaluated w/ a 30" circle to determine pattern percentages and uniformity and to identify baseball sized holes. Several times I thought that turkey shotshell development had reached its zenith, only to be proven wrong time and time again. With the release of commercial TSS turkey loads, I feel that it is imperative for knowledgeable seasoned turkey hunters to strive to educate other hunters to counter what is going to be a blitz of media hype advocating the ability of the ammunition for long range turkey shooting. Just as surely as Federal will be on the band wagon w/ its TSS loads, both Winchester and EM will up their marketing in the same vein. Like most of the hunters on this site, I've probably shot at least 10 times the number of shells at paper vs those shot at turkeys and know what my guns and shells will do at different ranges and hunting conditions. I live and breath wild turkeys and and am saddened by thoughts of nimrods going into the woods thinking that they are capable of cleanly killing turkeys at extreme ranges, when in effect they are crippling and losing an inordinate number of birds. I've expressed my displeasure in writing and e-mail to all the manufacturers concerning their marketing practices and maybe, if enough dedicated turkey hunters do the same, it may have an effect on the way they market their shotshells. We may not be able to influence the manufacturers, but I know that we can educate other turkey hunters. Thanks

Thegobblergetter
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by Thegobblergetter » January 27th, 2018, 12:26 pm

Well said decoykrvr!! You hit the nail on the head! Thanks, John

RemingtonRules
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by RemingtonRules » January 27th, 2018, 8:18 pm

The genie is out of the bottle.

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ICDEDTURKES
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by ICDEDTURKES » January 27th, 2018, 10:03 pm

Absolutely great post. I'll leave it at that for now.
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coconut
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by coconut » January 27th, 2018, 11:56 pm

I think it is going to destroy turkey populations in many areas. After the first week of turkey season there will be many hunters here saying the turkeys just don’t gobble anymore. With new shells, blinds , reaping and decoys its not going to end well.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by coconut » January 28th, 2018, 12:04 am

Also would like to add that it will be blamed on bad weather, predators, diseases , aflatoxin and anything but over harvest.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by hoobilly » January 28th, 2018, 8:45 am

Very thoughtful and well said. I hope that many stress that when using tss it’s just not about how far. As we already know that tss will kill at 100 yards.

It’s about the hunt
The gobble
Improving your ability to call
To stalk
To hone woodsmanship

The turkey load is a small part (but very important) of the hunt.

To bring others to the sport and show them what true turkey hunting is. When the trigger is pulled and the gobbler is dead, then it’s over. Set back and savor the feeling and enjoy Gods creation.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by fountain » January 28th, 2018, 8:48 am

I'm of the same thinking. I was in a gun shop a few weeks ago and somehow we got onto Turkey guns/shells. They hound guy and his dad behind the counter said they had someone going to load them some tss this season. I told them I knew of has and had been shooting it since 2012. I also told them thst it was going to be commercially available and that they should get some in the store. When he heard the price hewanted to back up then..lol.
We began to discuss shooting smaller gauge guns like the 20 and 410. They going guy then asked, "do you think it will kill em at 80?" I was took back for a moment and then realized....this is exactly how some "Turkey hunters" are going to look at this. They will be sadly disappointed in tss and say it's junk, but that's fine too. They wanted to know if they rolled up on one could they get him at 80 to 90 yards in the 20 ga, because they have killed that fast with longbeards in their 12s.
It's going to get scary now. Extremely long shots, and shooting "false" turkeys. I sure hope folks take an extra second to truly identify their targets. If not, people will be shot and killed with tss.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by guesswho » January 28th, 2018, 9:26 am

I agree, but I doubt emails and phone calls will override the pursuit of maximizing sales. Worth a shot though. Turkey hunters would probably listen. Trouble is in this day and age is there are more deer hunters who turkey hunt than there are turkey hunters, and that gap widens every year, thanks N"WTF". Nothing against deer hunters at all, but most of them don't understand the concerns turkey hunters have. And most never will. Majority will never give it any thought. The box says I can Kill'em at 70, so surely they're being conservative and I can kill most of them at 80.

And I realize that the people who don't know me, and the majority of the people who do, think I'm just a crazy old coot. So I have all but given up on sharing my views, well most of the time, some of the time, or only when opportunity presents itself. :scratch:
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by Turkinator » January 28th, 2018, 10:11 am

On a brighter note, most of the guys who are looking for the magic80" load never get within 80" of a turkey. A squealing hen, and a haint, a funky chicken and turkey scent can't be improved by tss

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by guesswho » January 28th, 2018, 10:15 am

Good point :lol:
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RemingtonRules
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by RemingtonRules » January 28th, 2018, 10:48 am

A lot of people want to shoot a turkey. Some want to hunt a turkey.

I will admit that some field birds have frustrated me to no end. If I could have called in air support I would have dropped a MOAB on his head and walked away smiling knowing he can't hurt/haunt me anymore.


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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by hoobilly » January 28th, 2018, 12:14 pm

RemingtonRules wrote:
January 28th, 2018, 10:48 am
A lot of people want to shoot a turkey. Some want to hunt a turkey.

I will admit that some field birds have frustrated me to no end. If I could have called in air support I would have dropped a MOAB on his head and walked away smiling knowing he can't hurt/haunt me anymore.


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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by paboxcall » January 28th, 2018, 6:14 pm

RemingtonRules wrote:
January 28th, 2018, 10:48 am
A lot of people want to shoot a turkey. Some want to hunt a turkey.
Therein lies the problem. These commercial companies see this not as providing a service, i.e., giving customers the densest pattern of TSS possible on target at responsible ranges. Instead this is filling a market demand to 'reach out and touch them' at irresponsible ranges. To the OP, I agree, we carry a responsibility to guide the next generation, so they understand hunting turkeys is not killing turkeys halfway across a farm field.

That said, I don't think this is an ammo company created problem, but a video flash - flash - flash outdoor channel program showing off turkey killing. Watch couple turkeys die in a 21 minute long segment, go out and do the same.
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by norINhunter » January 28th, 2018, 9:45 pm

Turkey hunting and waterfowling are the only hunting I do and honestly the only thing that keeps me coming back is seeing that group of 25 greenheads bow up to the sound of the call or watching that gobbler break into a dead a sprint from 200 yds away and getting them to the point where you know you've just made them come to you.
As for handloading I get so much satisfaction out of rolling my own and knowing exactly how my gun patterns. It's not for sniping at long ranges hell yes it's awesome knowing I can shank one deep but I don't do it for that reason. What I'm most looking forward to this year is taking people who have never gone before and getting to share with them the joy of spring and chasing thunder. There is no better time to be in the woods than spring.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by hoobilly » January 28th, 2018, 10:55 pm

norINhunter wrote:
January 28th, 2018, 9:45 pm
Turkey hunting and waterfowling are the only hunting I do and honestly the only thing that keeps me coming back is seeing that group of 25 greenheads bow up to the sound of the call or watching that gobbler break into a dead a sprint from 200 yds away and getting them to the point where you know you've just made them come to you.
As for handloading I get so much satisfaction out of rolling my own and knowing exactly how my gun patterns. It's not for sniping at long ranges hell yes it's awesome knowing I can shank one deep but I don't do it for that reason. What I'm most looking forward to this year is taking people who have never gone before and getting to share with them the joy of spring and chasing thunder. There is no better time to be in the woods than spring.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by Cut N Run » February 4th, 2018, 11:13 am

This post is a bit off topic and I apologize for taking this thread off the rails, but it still kinda fits. Not sure if it deserves its own thread.

I met a guy in his early 30s last year who just scored access to 300+ acres less than 3 miles from my house which is wrapped up with turkeys. I have seriously lusted to hunt there for 25 years. I took him turkey hunting to some heavily hunted public land last year (before he had rights to the nearby land) and he kept pestering me to take him to one of my ace in the hole spots instead (yeah, right). Beforehand, we spent some time at the range and figured out what loads he and his gun prefer. I loaned him several chokes and had him shoot on quality targets at all imaginable distances, so he'd understand what his maximum range might be. He also hunts ducks and already has a grasp of effective shooting range. In between now and then, he got introduced to Longbeards by a duck hunting friend of his who sold him on the idea that an 80+ yard kill is possible with the Longbeards, so he doesn't need to get gobblers in all THAT close. I plan to get him back to the range to nip that idea in the bud. It pi$$es me off to have tangible work at the range contaminated by advertising and an uneducated know-it-all buddy.

I've been trying to encourage this guy to study turkeys, go listen to unpressured birds in one of the state parks from up close to get a better idea of what makes them tick. I've also supplied him with a few decent quality calls and some live turkey sounds CDs to learn the correct calls and cadence. But he seems too busy and not dedicated enough to take advantage of the help in shortening his learning curve. His main goal seems to be getting a gobbler so he can post his picture with it on facebook. *heavy sigh*

I'm not really sure what to do next. I really want to hunt on that piece of land, since it's so convenient and heavily populated with turkeys. He has definitely spent some money to outfit himself with quality gear, he's just not dedicating himself to becoming a turkey hunter. Its almost like he expects me to set him up where all he has to do is show up and pull the trigger. I'm certainly capable of doing that, but I was hoping to develop his skill set so he could learn to pursue turkeys on his own. Maybe if hold his hand and call a bird in close for him to shoot, he'll lose this "shoot at any distance" idea.

I had no mentor early on and was brought up through the school of hard knocks, where I mastered making mistakes, learning hard lessons, and paying attention to what the birds were doing. Because of that, I understand what works & what doesn't. The vast majority of my gobblers have been killed under 25 yards than over. What frustrates me is this guy's lack of dedication to desire to achieve the ultimate goal. I don't believe in taking shortcuts to success and I sort of expected/ hoped more than a hero picture was his main goal. I'll keep working on him. Maybe success will bring him around.

I'd appreciate any help/suggestions.

Jim
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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by trkykilr » February 4th, 2018, 4:11 pm

If each hunter would keep the same standard of distance at which a turkey is in range of 40 yards, or even 45, the evolution of shells would be a great thing and lead to less wounded birds.

I still contend that the outlawing of male turkey decoys is the best thing possible for the sport.

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Re: The Evolution of Turkey Shotshells

Post by hoobilly » February 4th, 2018, 4:40 pm

Cut N Run wrote:
February 4th, 2018, 11:13 am
This post is a bit off topic and I apologize for taking this thread off the rails, but it still kinda fits. Not sure if it deserves its own thread.


I had no mentor early on and was brought up through the school of hard knocks, where I mastered making mistakes, learning hard lessons, and paying attention to what the birds were doing. Because of that, I understand what works & what doesn't. The vast majority of my gobblers have been killed under 25 yards than over. What frustrates me is this guy's lack of dedication to desire to achieve the ultimate goal. I don't believe in taking shortcuts to success and I sort of expected/ hoped more than a hero picture was his main goal. I'll keep working on him. Maybe success will bring him around.

I'd appreciate any help/suggestions.

Jim
I would go with him and stress this aint duck hunting skiebusting. Must have shot in the neck and head to cleanly kill a gobbler. We don't like runners..

I would stress to him that the satisfaction is getting them closer and smoking the snood off the head lol

anyone can take a pot shot with lead at 70.. but wheres the fun?

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