TSS buckshot opinions

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hookinembig
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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 4th, 2017, 9:45 pm

Quick update for you guys on the shells I loaded.

I ended up loading 4 of the straight BB loads in Hal's(hawglips) 1 3/4 oz. load and 4 BB and T duplex loads in Hal's(hawglips) 1 3/4 oz load.

The target was set at 50 yards and was roughly 36" x 36"

I was shooting my Mossberg 12 gauge with a kicks buck kicker extra full choke which is a .690 constriction I believe.

1st shot with just the BB load got 40 pellets in on the target.
2nd shot after adjusting red dot sight with the straight BB load 56 pellets on the target.(Only lost 6 pellets give or take)
3rd shot with the duplex of BB and T shot got 37 pellets on the target.

The second shot my best 20 inch circle had 31 pellets in it.
The third shot my best 20 inch circle had 29 pellets in it. (Appeared that the BB&T load held a tiny bit tighter pattern with that choke)

It was getting dark so we had to call it quits for the day. But very confident in the patterns at 10 to 50 yards

After shooting at 50 yards a 80 yard shot would really be out there with just a red dot reflex sight. So 60 yards might be it for me.

I still have some more testing to do and will probably try my turkey choke which is a Indian Creek .660 restriction to see what happens as well. I went ahead and loaded all of the shells with without duplexing them. So we did 16 BB loads and 8 T loads. I will probably run 2 BB loads and my third shot will be the T load while hunting. We use a homemade shot collector(made of carpet, a door mat, and old real estate signs) and I was able to collect almost 90 percent of my shot but my brother shot his remington 870 with a load and missed the target except for 3 pellets. We will be doing some testing with his gun as well with a different choke.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 5th, 2017, 2:20 pm

Hookinembig,
Thanks for the update!
Sounds like a definite 60 yard killing machine. I do agree about 80 yard shots with a red dot, may be a little tough. That's why I said 60 yards for me in the first place. A low power scope would be much better at that range.

The patterns seemed to be good. I will be very curious how the straight T loads, and the others for that matter do in a tighter choke. Just to see what direction the patterns go......

Thanks again for the info, and keep us posted.

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hoobilly
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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hoobilly » December 5th, 2017, 9:58 pm

I wonder if 80 yard shots on coyotes or deer in a field would work good with a red dot. Your not actually pinpointing a gobblers neck, so
a running deer or coyote would be like a CQCB weapon.. point and shoot.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by Spuriosity » December 6th, 2017, 8:13 am

I may be completely wrong, but if it was me, I would not shoot those loads through your IC unless you are ok with ruining it. I'd at least call them to see what they say. Those are big, very hard pellets. They're not going to shift around within the ejecta like 8s and 9s will. With the birdcage design of the IC choke, I could see it splitting pretty easily. Don't think the patterns are going to improve over the .690 anyway. But it's your choke, and again, I could be completely wrong.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 6th, 2017, 12:22 pm

After talking to Indian Creek they said they wouldn't recommend shooting those loads through the .660. So I will probably stay with what I have. My brother did order a cheaper carlsons choke that is .660 so maybe we will give it a try with his 870. I appreciate the heads up on that Spuriosity.

Hoobilly as far as a 80 yard shot I think you could kill a deer at that distance because it has been done. The main reason why I wanted to switch to the TSS for the buck shot is not so much the distance but the ability to kill effectively. I have shot deer in the past with regular buck shot at close distances and the effectiveness left a lot to be desired. Also the pellet count in commercial shells is so low it is even worse. After I see what the pattern looks like at 70-80 yards with the BB's or T's things may change but the max for now will be in the 50-60 yard range. I know it can kill at 80+ but I want to make sure the pattern is dense enough to be effective at killing quickly.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by howl » December 6th, 2017, 12:37 pm

The trouble with buckshot, in my opinion, is lack of bloodtrail. I aim for the neck just like and for the same reasons as with gobblers. If they're flopping just ventilate the lungs with a knife. It don't take long. I'm kinda cheap like that, though. Most people just keep shooting. I ain't wasting a shell.

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hoobilly
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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hoobilly » December 6th, 2017, 12:44 pm

hookinembig wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 12:22 pm
Hoobilly as far as a 80 yard shot I think you could kill a deer at that distance because it has been done. The main reason why I wanted to switch to the TSS for the buck shot is not so much the distance but the ability to kill effectively. I have shot deer in the past with regular buck shot at close distances and the effectiveness left a lot to be desired. Also the pellet count in commercial shells is so low it is even worse. After I see what the pattern looks like at 70-80 yards with the BB's or T's things may change but the max for now will be in the 50-60 yard range. I know it can kill at 80+ but I want to make sure the pattern is dense enough to be effective at killing quickly.
I have no doubt that tss will kill at 80 yards, I’m talking about the red dot being used at 80+ yards. As big as coyotes and deer are, a red dot should be no problem on standing or running critters

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 6th, 2017, 3:00 pm

hookinembig wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 12:22 pm
After talking to Indian Creek they said they wouldn't recommend shooting those loads through the .660. So I will probably stay with what I have. My brother did order a cheaper carlsons choke that is .660 so maybe we will give it a try with his 870. I appreciate the heads up on that Spuriosity.

Hoobilly as far as a 80 yard shot I think you could kill a deer at that distance because it has been done. The main reason why I wanted to switch to the TSS for the buck shot is not so much the distance but the ability to kill effectively. I have shot deer in the past with regular buck shot at close distances and the effectiveness left a lot to be desired. Also the pellet count in commercial shells is so low it is even worse. After I see what the pattern looks like at 70-80 yards with the BB's or T's things may change but the max for now will be in the 50-60 yard range. I know it can kill at 80+ but I want to make sure the pattern is dense enough to be effective at killing quickly.

Hookinembig,
Did Indian Creek say how small of a choke they would recommend for the BBs and Ts? In other words, how low of a constriction did they think could safely be used? .680, .690, etc?
Thanks

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hookinembig
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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 6th, 2017, 3:22 pm

They didn't say the lowest they would recommend. I asked them about there .710 coyote choke and he said that one would be fine. The .690 from kicks I have looked fine after I shot it and cleaned it up but its designed for Buck shot although not TSS buck shot.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 6th, 2017, 4:33 pm

Ok guys,
What is your opinion here on chokes?
Here is the situation.
I have 2 Indian creek chokes. One is a .680 ported without wad catchers, and one is a .710 without wad catchers.

I am going to shoot a 1.5 or 1.75 ounce load of straight T Shot.

Do you think the .680 will be too tight and be a danger of splitting with the bigger T Shot, which is .20 in diameter. Stuart at Indian Creek thought it would be ok, but I will trust what you guys say even more.

What is you guys opinion on choke diameter for this big shot. What do you think would be safe? Thanks

pedro
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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by pedro » December 6th, 2017, 6:09 pm

My guess is the 710. The larger shot should like less construction.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by Spuriosity » December 7th, 2017, 8:58 am

Stuart knows more about his chokes than any of us do, so if he thinks the .680 would be ok, it probably is. But I would still start with the .710. It might be just the ticket.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hawglips » December 7th, 2017, 3:12 pm

I'd be surprised if wad catchers didn't get banged up real bad with the large sizes. I'd err on the side of opening the choke up a good deal more than with the turkey sizes.

I usually use a .700 (standard bore) with small sizes and turkeys anyway.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 7th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Thanks for the input guys! I really appreciate it.

I actually called Indian Creek and spoke with them. The .680 may be a little tight for straight Ts. BBs, maybe okay. I am going to keep that choke anyways......might need it down the road, but won't be my first choice to use with straight Ts.

I actually custom ordered a .695 Indian Creek ported without wad catchers today. I have high hopes for that choke, but if it doesn't work out, I do have the .710 ported without wad catchers as well.

I agree with you Hal, the wad catchers would be ripped all to pieces with this size shot.....thats why I went no wad catchers on all three chokes, even the .680 doesn't have them. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Thanks to all for the opinions and input so far!

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 8th, 2017, 2:36 pm

Another quick update for you guys.

We were able to get out and shoot my brothers Remington 870 this morning. He just received a carlsons .660 choke from amazon(30 some dollars and change) and it is ported. We only shot one load of TSS BB's and it put out a good pattern. He doesn't have a sight just the bead so we didn't want to shoot more until he gets a sight so we can adjust the point of aim. After shooting the load we inspected the choke for any damage or scores but it was in perfect condition.

On a 36 x 36 sheet of paper had 51 of the 61 pellets on target at 50 yards. I believe his best 20 inch circle was 24 pellets but I believe his best 10 inch circle was 17 pellets. So the 20 inch circle wasn't quite as dense as the .690 choke out of the mossberg 535 but his 10 inch pellet count was better. The concentration of pellets in the heart, lungs and liver area would have dropped the deer at 50 yards unless it was a monster or full of adrenaline.

After he gets his sight and everything straight we will do some more testing.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hawglips » December 11th, 2017, 2:49 pm

This deer was killed the other day with Ts at around 30 yds....

Image

This one was about 30 yds on a running deer, 1-5/8 oz of Ts, cylinder choke. Found at least 30 holes in the deer, and found 18 pellets under the skin on the off side. Lungs were "devastated".

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 11th, 2017, 6:31 pm

That's what I'm talking about......that is what you call devastating one! And in a cylinder choke.....Wow!

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 12th, 2017, 1:09 pm

Proof is in the pudding folks. Anyone who hunts with dogs or does man drives should be using these loads. It would stop a lot of deer from being wounded and put a lot more meat in the freezer.

Thanks for the update Hal and the killer loads.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by hookinembig » December 17th, 2017, 7:53 am

I was able to get out and participate in a handicap hunt yesterday that a friend at my church puts on with his local QDMA branch and the local NWTF branch. The young kid (Joseph) I was sitting with ran out of shells on the first stand(single shot 16 gauge - several close calls but nothing on the ground.) So for the afternoon stand I let him use my Mossberg 12 gauge with the newly loaded TSS Buckshot loads.

As we are sitting at the second stand site someone flushed up a large hen. It landed 60 or so yards away and it was completely spooked. Joseph and I couldn't see were she went after she landed but the guy filming with us could still see it. We waited for a good little bit and then it finally started to move. It took like what seemed forever but it finally started moving to the left where the woods opened up a bit. I was able to position his wheel chair so we could follow the bird as it walked through the woods. It finally stepped into a open spot and Joseph pulled the trigger and dropped her on the spot with a perfect shot. Hen down at 45 yards with the BB TSS load. One of the pellets put a nice large hole through the neck. The video footage was great so one day hopefully I can get the video and upload it here. The guy filming will take it to a pro editor that edits for some of the hunting shows on TV that lives locally.

Turned out to be his first turkey ever! Needless to say we were all pumped up.

After getting the turkey and taking some quick picks we get settled back in and the drivers are coming towards us. I see some movement out in front of us and I swear it was going to be a dog because of how close it was to the drivers but it turns out to be a deer walking slowly trying squeeze out. He starts walking to the right and I am able to get Joseph spun around while he holds on the deer. There is a path that we are sitting on and we decided to wait till he got to the open path to take the shot(which felt like forever.) As I am turning him his wheel of his chair comes off the wood platform and the deer is almost at the path. So I just try to hold that side of the chair as level as possible as he takes the shot. He shoots and the deer drops. He hit a little bit back on the but it still dropped him. If it would have been regular buck shot I guarantee this deer would have kept moving. We go up and finish the deer off and Joseph is pumped for his first deer of the season. Turns out its a buck that had already lost its horns.

Over all a awesome day in the woods with some great success!

In the pictures are Joseph (The Stone Cold Killer) and Joey (Filming Specialist)
Attachments
turkey 1.jpg
turkey 2.jpg
deer and turkey.jpg

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by howl » December 17th, 2017, 1:24 pm

Congrats all around!

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 17th, 2017, 1:49 pm

Awesome Micah, nothing like seeing your own shells take game! Awesome hunt for everyone and congrats to everyone involved. Just solidifies how lethal this stuff is once again.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 17th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Ok guys,
Here is an opinion from Scott Carlson at Carlson's chokes, he is actually the owner. I sent him an email to inquire about what he thought would be a good choke choice for using the bigger TSS T Shot. Here is what I wrote:

Hello,
I am in search of some choke tubes for my new Remington 870 super mag in 12 gauge.

 Here is what I will be shooting......I have been handloading TSS or tungsten super shot for years now. I have used it exclusively in the 20 gauge, and have used your chokes with it using number 9 shot for turkeys. Being that it is 18g/cc density, one can use much smaller shot and retain good penetration.  I have used this with your .575 Remchoke, and it has worked great. Awesome patterns.

 Now, with this 870 super mag, I am setting it up for deer and using TSS in T sized shot. .20 or 5mm diameter shot. Being that it is hard and dense, what choke diameter would you recommend for this bigger shot? I would like to retain a very good pattern, but don't want to go too tight and damage anything. Do you have a recommendation for a good starting point? I definitely want extended chokes, just curious what you think about constriction? Thanks so much

Jeremy

Here is what Scott wrote to me:

Jeremy:

 

Thank you for your email.  The smaller shot sizes work well through the tighter chokes and since they are heavier you get several pellet size bigger knock down.  We have used tighter chokes with T’s (hevi shot) but we knew the wad and did testing on them so we knew the chokes would work.  With reloads this is not as easy to answer since we have not done any testing with what you are loading.  I would proceed cautiously and start with an extended full and work tighter from there.  Please let me know if you have other questions.

 

Scott

CARLSON’S CHOKE TUBES, LLC

scott@choketube.com    

785-626-3700    


Very quick to answer and informative. He suggested I start with an extended full choke, so this is where I will begin. I am going to use the cheaper Carlson chokes with TSS from now on. They are much less expensive and seem to work well with TSS. Indian Creek chokes are nice, just too expensive for TSS now in my opinion after analyzing this for weeks.

Just thought you guys may want to see what he had to say.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by VALongbeard » December 17th, 2017, 3:23 pm

I found this searching through older topics in this board. This is a picture from Hal using 1.5 ounces of Ts through a full choke. Pretty darn good pattern if you ask me. Looks like all 36 pellets in a 15 to 18 inch circle at 40 yards.....

patternbuckshot5mm8-28-10.jpg

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by poorcountrypreacher » December 19th, 2017, 9:20 pm

I haven't checked in here lately, but this is an interesting project. I shot a doe years ago with a 5mm load from Hal and it dropped her easily at 30 yds or so. I shot it using an 870 with a cheap .675 choke of unknown make. It extended an inch or so and had no wad catcher. I shot several times sighting in and had no damage to the choke.

Good luck! I think tss will be vastly superior to lead buckshot, though I would try to hit the deer right in the shoulder or neck. Hit bones and it's going down.

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Re: TSS buckshot opinions

Post by SumToy » December 20th, 2017, 2:27 pm

I think around a Hm to a F going to be the place you want to be. Now that is based off the lead buck shot choke we play with.

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