VP92

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VP92

Post by 870 Shooter » June 30th, 2017, 11:31 am

How bad do your vp92 wads look after shooting?
I imagine the little guy stuck in the side did a little damage.
There was a Mylar in there. It's wadded up in the bottom of the wad.
If I remember correctly, it was shot thru a jebs. I know a IC will tear them up bad with the stops and ports.
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hawglips
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Re: VP92

Post by hawglips » June 30th, 2017, 12:20 pm

Never seen one look that bad....

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Re: VP92

Post by crenshawco » June 30th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Me neither

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Re: VP92

Post by swampchicken » June 30th, 2017, 1:45 pm

That's an ugly looking wad. The 92s I have shot through an IC .555 don't look even close to that! The pellet stuck in the wad couldn't be good on the gun. :shock:

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Jamey
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Re: VP92

Post by Jamey » June 30th, 2017, 3:35 pm

Have you shot several and they all look like that?
ImageImage

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Re: VP92

Post by Turkinator » June 30th, 2017, 4:19 pm

i also shoot the 92s through an Indian CK 555. My wads never look anywhere near that. my mylars look almost re usable You must have something else going on.

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Re: VP92

Post by 870 Shooter » June 30th, 2017, 7:25 pm

I'm picked up a few more that shot thru a IC that wasn't that bad.
I've pretty much gone to a vp90 now. Most of those look reusable after shooting.
I've seen some tore up wads but this shocked me some.

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Re: VP92

Post by Swampchickin234 » June 30th, 2017, 10:41 pm

It's the jebs. Absolutely. Buddy got him a jebs .560 and with a csd wad, it looked like you put it through a paper shredder. He promptly packaged it up, sent it back, and been done with em. Exactly like that picture. I quickly decided I did not want to shoot it either. Oh and a ported one mind you*


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Reloader
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Re: VP92

Post by Reloader » July 6th, 2017, 12:42 pm

I've seen a bunch of VP92 wads chewed up liked that. I've seen a bunch of Mylars that were chewed up as well in that wad. It's a very weak wad. You'll also notice the skirt is nearly always blown off. The good thing is this damage is primarily done in the choke and depending on the choke, the damage will be more or less. I've not seen a bbl get scratched with the VP92 when Mylar was used. The 91 is weak as well.

The CSD is another that gets chewed up as well.

Pass the 90s please :D

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Re: VP92

Post by BuckyT » July 11th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Ughhhh..... Nothing remotely that bad looking..

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Re: VP92

Post by GLS » July 11th, 2017, 3:01 pm

That result is the same I get using Kyle Smith's 1 oz. 20 gauge load shot through a Pure Gold ported choke. The ports snag and mangle the CSD exterior wad. The pattern in the 10" at 40 is remarkably good despite the mangled wad. Gil

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Re: VP92

Post by hawglips » July 13th, 2017, 6:10 am

Reloader wrote:
Pass the 90s please :D
Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple.

I got reports of the PT2090 wad failing from two different turkey hunters this spring. The wad failures cost both hunters two birds each. To add danger to the mix, each time the wad ended up stuck ibarrel. Good things the hunters had the presence of mind to not cycle in and shoot another shell in the heat of the moment with the turkey standing there. I have loaded thousands of shells with that wad, and this spring was the first time I've seen this happen. And it happened not once, but 4 times.

Image

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I remembered that I had read somewhere online long ago of problems with these wads failing, but could not find them when I set out to look for them after this.

As for the PT2092, I don't recall seeing any of them mangled up that badly (as in the OP), but I shoot my recipes that aren't as high pressured as some out there, so I can't speak for anyone else's experience. Mylar is your friend.

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Re: VP92

Post by hoobilly » July 13th, 2017, 8:02 am

hawglips wrote:
Reloader wrote:
Pass the 90s please :D
Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple.

I got reports of the PT2090 wad failing from two different turkey hunters this spring. The wad failures cost both hunters two birds each. To add danger to the mix, each time the wad ended up stuck ibarrel. Good things the hunters had the presence of mind to not cycle in and shoot another shell in the heat of the moment with the turkey standing there. I have loaded thousands of shells with that wad, and this spring was the first time I've seen this happen. And it happened not once, but 4 times.


I remembered that I had read somewhere online long ago of problems with these wads failing, but could not find them when I set out to look for them after this.

As for the PT2092, I don't recall seeing any of them mangled up that badly (as in the OP), but I shoot my recipes that aren't as high pressured as some out there, so I can't speak for anyone else's experience. Mylar is your friend.
I would wonder if the 4 failures of the 90 isn't from something loaded wrong? I haven't heard or seen anyone having problems from wads being used in a hotter load.. With a wad being stuck in the barrel it sounds like it could have the improper amount of powder being used?

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Re: VP92

Post by hawglips » July 13th, 2017, 8:23 am

hoobilly wrote:
I would wonder if the 4 failures of the 90 isn't from something loaded wrong? I haven't heard or seen anyone having problems from wads being used in a hotter load.. With a wad being stuck in the barrel it sounds like it could have the improper amount of powder being used?
There was nothing loaded wrong in the case of the two above wads in the picture. I actually witnessed the loading of these two. You can see from the pictures that the wad just split all over the place. Looks to me like perhaps faulty plastic used in the molding of the wad perhaps.

Anyway, there are ways to avoid this now that I know those wads might have issues.

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Re: VP92

Post by Reloader » July 13th, 2017, 11:44 am

That's the first I've heard or seen of 90s failing as well. That's obviously partly a material failure, but those failures look to me like they were also caused from components inside the wad under the shot with an improper fit as well as nothing(seal) under the wad. If you use that wad over a substantial seal of some sort, you'd never know it happened IF the base cracked unless you found the wad afterwards.

The 90 is the best wad I've worked with in 20ga, and I believe I've tried all of them. The absolute toughest to date for me have been the 90 and the SAM, but the patterns with the SAM have never impressed me. Not to mention more capacity than needed for 18+ shot, which requires fillers.

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Re: VP92

Post by hawglips » July 13th, 2017, 12:59 pm

They don't call the VP90 "The Tank" for no reason. I was the maybe the first one complaining to BPI when they said they were going to quit selling it. It's thick and designed to be tough - ideal for heavy TSS loads - UNLESS there is a problem with the manufacture or design of it. The design has indeed changed since I first started using it years ago, so apparently there was a reason for them to do that. For example, Helarco put out a press release back in 2011 about problems with a couple different wads related to the mold, which they say they changed. I know the mold for more recent PT2090s has been changed - you can easily ID that by the bottom of the shot cup which is totally different in some bags I have of them. Both of the wads I saw that failed were of the same mold design. The bad news on the other design is that while I was investigating the why of the failures, I found a couple of the other design that had holes in the bottom of the shot cup....

As for improper fit or improper components or improper anything else under the shot inside the wad - there was none. Just that the wad was too brittle for whatever reason and cracked in multiple directions and split along the cracks causing the gas to escape and inadequate combustion to result in the bloopers. Other than the obvious and logical and most likely possibility that the cracks and split all along the bottom of the wad and up the side were simply a failure of the wad design or material itself, the only other thing that I can think of that makes sense is some sort of reaction between the powder and the wad over the time between when the shell was loaded and when it was fired that caused the wad to weaken and become brittle.

I've developed several dozen lab tested loads with that wad, and love it. Some using other gas seals, some without. And there are ways to work around and minimize the potential of it happening again. I'm just giving a heads up to those using the wad.

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Re: VP92

Post by Reloader » July 13th, 2017, 1:48 pm

Maybe there will be some new 20ga heavy duty wads out before long :D

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Re: VP92

Post by Shooter » July 13th, 2017, 5:19 pm

You may be on to something Hawg. I have seen first hand lately of the chemical reaction to some powders and plastics.
Just the other day, I left some Lil'gun in one of my powder throwers for a day or two.
When I dumped the powder out, a bunch was still stuck to the side. After blowing it out with the air hose, the plastic tube was distinctly scarred from the reaction.
Kind of makes sense, cause you know they would have never loaded them cracked. And with the unburned powder still on em, causing the blooper, tells me they failed while in the shell after loading.

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Re: VP92

Post by Turkinator » July 13th, 2017, 6:01 pm

Shooter wrote:You may be on to something Hawg. I have seen first hand lately of the chemical reaction to some powders and plastics.
Just the other day, I left some Lil'gun in one of my powder throwers for a day or two.
When I dumped the powder out, a bunch was still stuck to the side. After blowing it out with the air hose, the plastic tube was distinctly scarred from the reaction.
Kind of makes sense, cause you know they would have never loaded them cracked. And with the unburned powder still on em, causing the blooper, tells me they failed while in the shell after loading.
I've had that problem with longshot in my mec bottle

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Re: VP92

Post by hawglips » July 14th, 2017, 4:13 am

Reloader wrote:Maybe there will be some new 20ga heavy duty wads out before long :D
If I had a nickel for every time BPI was asked by someone, "when you going to come out with a TPS 20 ga wad?".....

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Re: VP92

Post by poorcountrypreacher » July 15th, 2017, 10:04 am

Stories like this are part of the reason I like that little red seal that BPI sells. Once I found out the hard way that you have to plug those 2 holes in it, that is. :)

I haven't found any wad that seals as tightly as the red seal, but if it's possible for the powder to eat the plastic, I guess that's one more thing to worry about.

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Re: VP92

Post by Jstocks » July 17th, 2017, 8:12 pm

Several year ago now I started loading tss and the recipe I used called for the 92. I had several wads that looked similar to the ones posted with shot stuck in them. I also had several loads not shoot and the wad would get stuck in the choke (IC .555) as well as not burn the powder. Having lost all confidence using that batch of wads (it had to have something to do with either the wads or the hulls), I went to a recipe with the 90 and haven't had any issues since that I know of, but I did unexplainably miss 3 turkeys this year that for the life of me I can't figure out still how I missed them. All standing still, within 50 yards, with a franchi affinity IC .555 and a 1 5/8 load of #9's. I've built a shot trap now and I'm gonna do some shooting to see what's going on. I do not suspect the wads or the shells for my misses.

I hope these 90 failures are isolated incidents because I really like the load and patterns I get.

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turkeyinstrut
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Re: VP92

Post by turkeyinstrut » July 18th, 2017, 8:36 am

So if there is some kind of powder/plastic reaction it is probably not a good idea to load up a bunch of shells ahead of time is it?

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Re: VP92

Post by GLS » July 18th, 2017, 9:22 am

turkeyinstrut wrote:
July 18th, 2017, 8:36 am
So if there is some kind of powder/plastic reaction it is probably not a good idea to load up a bunch of shells ahead of time is it?
Thinking the same thing. If you have any left over shells, dump and save the shot at season's end and reload just before.

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Re: VP92

Post by turkeyinstrut » July 18th, 2017, 9:53 am

GLS wrote:
July 18th, 2017, 9:22 am
turkeyinstrut wrote:
July 18th, 2017, 8:36 am
So if there is some kind of powder/plastic reaction it is probably not a good idea to load up a bunch of shells ahead of time is it?
Thinking the same thing. If you have any left over shells, dump and save the shot at season's end and reload just before.
Holey Moley!!!..........I have got 50 already loaded and was going to load more.

But I am using the VP92 wad (PT2092), is anybody having the same problem with them? I'm sure they would be made of the same plastic but maybe not.

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