Is it consistent

Talk about handloading, patterns, and commercial shells/ammo here.
SumToy
Posts: 261
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 7:39 am

Is it consistent

Post by SumToy » June 28th, 2017, 3:39 pm

How consistent is the stuff from shot to shot. I know that how it is loaded has alot to do with it. I have seen some of the guns all over the place and had guy say his does some odd things ever now and then. I just trying to play with the small bore guns and seem to be little fruity. Trying to figure if it over choked or not.

User avatar
gophert
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1446
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 9:14 am
Location: Middle TN
Contact:

Re: Is it consistent

Post by gophert » June 28th, 2017, 3:41 pm

I'm assuming you are referring to TSS. I think it is somewhat choke dependent, but I have seen 5 shots from my gun very +/- 10 pellets. I'd say that's pretty consistent. I had an SSX choke one time that would throw a big number and the next shot with similar variables look totally different.

I am not near about the expert as some but I have seen overchoked patterns look crazy and yes vary quit a bit.

SumToy
Posts: 261
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 7:39 am

Re: Is it consistent

Post by SumToy » June 28th, 2017, 3:45 pm

I know that if over choke other shell it will do that. I plan on opening it up some to see what it does. It is a 410 on this one. We playing in the 383 range. We got that crazy wad falling about 25 yards.

User avatar
hookedspur
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2002
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 7:44 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Is it consistent

Post by hookedspur » June 28th, 2017, 3:52 pm

Mine shoots it very even like Tim said within 10-15 shot +or - ,

2Shooter
Posts: 561
Joined: January 6th, 2016, 9:18 pm
Location: North Georgia

Re: Is it consistent

Post by 2Shooter » June 28th, 2017, 5:08 pm

gophert wrote:I'm assuming you are referring to TSS. I think it is somewhat choke dependent, but I have seen 5 shots from my gun very +/- 10 pellets. I'd say that's pretty consistent. I had an SSX choke one time that would throw a big number and the next shot with similar variables look totally different.

I am not near about the expert as some but I have seen overchoked patterns look crazy and yes vary quit a bit.
Dang can we use that dirty word T something? :dontknow: :slap:

fountain
Posts: 382
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 11:25 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by fountain » June 28th, 2017, 7:49 pm

Call mine odd, but mine have never been consistent like that. Mine may vary 25 to 30 pellets from shot to shot, maybe more.

SumToy
Posts: 261
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 7:39 am

Re: Is it consistent

Post by SumToy » June 28th, 2017, 8:13 pm

2Shooter wrote:
gophert wrote:I'm assuming you are referring to TSS. I think it is somewhat choke dependent, but I have seen 5 shots from my gun very +/- 10 pellets. I'd say that's pretty consistent. I had an SSX choke one time that would throw a big number and the next shot with similar variables look totally different.

I am not near about the expert as some but I have seen overchoked patterns look crazy and yes vary quit a bit.
Dang can we use that dirty word T something? :dontknow: :slap:
I figured if it was in this section folks know and last time I ask about it I got 5 times well 3 times jumped on. So I call I trouble stuff shot. LoL.

I tried that longer and it looks good but think I want to open up some. Trying to figure what it is. I think it may be in them shells that just don't work with set up because some of the others seem to have luck with that same size.

TJ does it do it all the time. I am trying to figure how much weather plays with it also. Think I am going to just invest in shot and components so I can test in different weather

bullethead
Posts: 42
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 8:09 pm
Location: Schuylkill Co. Pa.

Re: Is it consistent

Post by bullethead » June 28th, 2017, 8:29 pm

When testing some chokes in spring a 20ga 1-7/16 oz load went 269,267,268/10/40 for three shots. That was the choke I hunted with!!
Tungsten tinkerer from way back.

User avatar
crenshawco
Posts: 564
Joined: May 10th, 2013, 11:28 am
Location: Alabama

Re: Is it consistent

Post by crenshawco » June 28th, 2017, 8:31 pm

As long as I bore snake between shots, it's within 20 pellets in the 20". There is always some variance in the 10" and 20" but it's what I would call consistent

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by hawglips » June 28th, 2017, 9:24 pm

I pay more attention to variation in the 20" instead of 10". The 20" is usually a better measure of consistency, IMO.

User avatar
BeardBuster
Posts: 94
Joined: January 3rd, 2016, 10:19 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by BeardBuster » June 29th, 2017, 6:43 am

I've often wondered about consistency myself...is this "normal" ?:

10" 20" Total
238 257 495
292 225 517
238 285 523
217 288 504
236 260 496
276 266 542

....I did forget to bore snake the barrel on some of these shots.

User avatar
GLS
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2324
Joined: May 16th, 2012, 10:29 am
Location: Lowcountry, GA

Re: Is it consistent

Post by GLS » June 29th, 2017, 7:46 am

BeardBuster wrote:I've often wondered about consistency myself...is this "normal" ?:

10" 20" Total
238 257 495
292 225 517
238 285 523
217 288 504
236 260 496
276 266 542

....I did forget to bore snake the barrel on some of these shots.
I wouldn't lose sleep over the above. Even the low of 217 in the 10" at 40 would be dense enough at 60 should you be so inclined to take the shot. Gil

swampchicken
Posts: 325
Joined: March 17th, 2014, 6:12 pm
Location: Central Missouri

Re: Is it consistent

Post by swampchicken » June 29th, 2017, 8:29 am

BeardBuster wrote:I've often wondered about consistency myself...is this "normal" ?:

10" 20" Total
238 257 495
292 225 517
238 285 523
217 288 504
236 260 496
276 266 542

....I did forget to bore snake the barrel on some of these shots.
Using your total numbers you have less than a 10% swing in your numbers. To me I would call that consistant.

SumToy
Posts: 261
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 7:39 am

Re: Is it consistent

Post by SumToy » June 29th, 2017, 9:20 am

I will look at the 20 inch numbers today. I am going to try different load today to see if that helps. I see all the crazy numbers with some of the 410 loads and think OK. lol We been hanging in the 135 to 145 range with the 9s.

User avatar
turkeyinstrut
Posts: 400
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 11:32 am

Re: Is it consistent

Post by turkeyinstrut » June 29th, 2017, 9:48 am

SumToy wrote:I will look at the 20 inch numbers today. I am going to try different load today to see if that helps. I see all the crazy numbers with some of the 410 loads and think OK. lol We been hanging in the 135 to 145 range with the 9s.
I think in a little 410 I would try some 9.5"s or even 10"'s, not sure what the maximum lethal range on 10's is though but I'm sure you are going to run out of pattern before you run out of energy with 9.5's.

2Shooter
Posts: 561
Joined: January 6th, 2016, 9:18 pm
Location: North Georgia

Re: Is it consistent

Post by 2Shooter » June 29th, 2017, 8:29 pm

50-52 yards on the 10's what Hal said.

User avatar
crenshawco
Posts: 564
Joined: May 10th, 2013, 11:28 am
Location: Alabama

Re: Is it consistent

Post by crenshawco » June 29th, 2017, 8:57 pm

That's surprising. I would've guessed around 60. What Pellet count per oz are you calling a 10?

User avatar
Andy S.
Posts: 326
Joined: March 13th, 2013, 8:21 am
Location: Atoka, TN

Re: Is it consistent

Post by Andy S. » June 29th, 2017, 9:20 pm

18g/cc #10s run 533 pellets per ounce.
Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

2Shooter
Posts: 561
Joined: January 6th, 2016, 9:18 pm
Location: North Georgia

Re: Is it consistent

Post by 2Shooter » June 30th, 2017, 5:32 am

crenshawco wrote:That's surprising. I would've guessed around 60. What Pellet count per oz are you calling a 10?
I think Hal said 9.5's are 62 yards I could be wrong. Maybe Hal will chime in, and set the record straight. :dontknow:

User avatar
Spuriosity
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 2299
Joined: April 23rd, 2012, 9:12 pm
Location: Western North Carolina

Re: Is it consistent

Post by Spuriosity » June 30th, 2017, 7:15 am

Pellet lethality is not an exact science. KPY can predict gel penetration for a given pellet at a given velocity at a given distance. 18 gm/cc 9.5s @ 1100 fps yield 1.25" penetration to around 64 yds while 10s are good to around 54 yds. But no one really knows how much gel penetration it takes to kill a turkey. I have espoused and we have come to accept 1.25", but it could be 1" or it could be 1.5". If we change our assumption from 1.25" to 1", those 9.5s jump from 64 yds to 76 yds. So take those numbers with a grain of salt; they are not exact.

Personally, I would err on the side of more penetration rather than less and use the largest pellet that still gives you the pattern density that you desire. I would reserve the use of 10s for the .410, where you need the extra pellets to fill out the pattern, and where your max range is limited by pattern density. The 28 may or may not benefit from 9.5s vs 9s. The 20 ga shines with 9s, and the 12 does fine with 8s or 9s. As long as I can put 250/10, I am satisfied (obviously not going to happen with the .410).

fountain
Posts: 382
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 11:25 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by fountain » June 30th, 2017, 11:22 am

I tried to "get to know my gun" when I set it up and know it will shoot a hotter core with a once fired dirty bbl. I will clean after the second shot with a bore snake. I have stopped worrying about super consistent shots because I know it will kill on every shot. I can count the pellets i shoot at turkeys, but I know I've done my homework and what the gun will do. I shoot a good bit of paper, mainly because I like to count the tiny holes! It's addicting and a bit competitive from shot to shot to see what it will do and to see consistency. Call it crazy or wasteful, but I like to shoot. I'm a numbers person when it comes to patterning..just ask William. How many 3.5 #7s dis I shoot at paper trying to best shot to shot and some others, William?? It was a lot, I do knot that. I have only killed 1 turkey with a 3.5 #7 and shot dozens and dozens at cardboard..lol

SumToy
Posts: 261
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 7:39 am

Re: Is it consistent

Post by SumToy » June 30th, 2017, 11:29 am

fountain wrote:I tried to "get to know my gun" when I set it up and know it will shoot a hotter core with a once fired dirty bbl. I will clean after the second shot with a bore snake. I have stopped worrying about super consistent shots because I know it will kill on every shot. I can count the pellets i shoot at turkeys, but I know I've done my homework and what the gun will do. I shoot a good bit of paper, mainly because I like to count the tiny holes! It's addicting and a bit competitive from shot to shot to see what it will do and to see consistency. Call it crazy or wasteful, but I like to shoot. I'm a numbers person when it comes to patterning..just ask William. How many 3.5 #7s dis I shoot at paper trying to best shot to shot and some others, William?? It was a lot, I do knot that. I have only killed 1 turkey with a 3.5 #7 and shot dozens and dozens at cardboard..lol


:slap: I remember you tie the gun to the shooting table. :LMAO:

User avatar
el diablo
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1070
Joined: June 27th, 2012, 11:37 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by el diablo » June 30th, 2017, 11:11 pm

Spuriosity wrote:Pellet lethality is not an exact science. KPY can predict gel penetration for a given pellet at a given velocity at a given distance. 18 gm/cc 9.5s @ 1100 fps yield 1.25" penetration to around 64 yds while 10s are good to around 54 yds. But no one really knows how much gel penetration it takes to kill a turkey. I have espoused and we have come to accept 1.25", but it could be 1" or it could be 1.5". If we change our assumption from 1.25" to 1", those 9.5s jump from 64 yds to 76 yds. So take those numbers with a grain of salt; they are not exact.

Personally, I would err on the side of more penetration rather than less and use the largest pellet that still gives you the pattern density that you desire. I would reserve the use of 10s for the .410, where you need the extra pellets to fill out the pattern, and where your max range is limited by pattern density. The 28 may or may not benefit from 9.5s vs 9s. The 20 ga shines with 9s, and the 12 does fine with 8s or 9s. As long as I can put 250/10, I am satisfied (obviously not going to happen with the .410).
Great info^^^^

User avatar
hawglips
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 3716
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 8:58 pm

Re: Is it consistent

Post by hawglips » July 6th, 2017, 9:02 am

True sized and true 18g/cc density 10s give you about 533/oz. And the smaller the shot is, the tougher it is to be exact on the size part. The 10s folks have been using this year have been running about 500/oz. Like Wes said, if we use 1.25" ball. gel penetration as the standard needed, and 1100 fps at sea level and 32 deg F, then those give you 54 yds of 1.25" ball. gel penetration.

For a true 9-1/2, you get 434/oz and 60.2 yds. Mine have been a bit larger at about 415/oz, which give you 62 yds.

The trade-off between pattern density and pellet penetration is always interesting. And I reckon there is no way to ever know what the standard really is, with exactness. The accepted pattern density standard of 100 in a 10" circle that most of us use seems to be plenty conservative, but if the goal is 100% death rate for turkeys, it's probably good not to go less than that. The 1.25" ballistics gel penetration is the same sort of thing. I used to hesitate to use it, but I'm more comfortable with it these days than I was 10 years ago. I now believe if you have 1.25" pellet penetration and 100 (evenly spaced) in 10" circle, and put that on the turkey's head and neck, it will be a 100% kill rate. I also think that you can kill a lot of turkeys significantly further than the 1.25" range (that 89 yd bird this spring with 10s as an example). The kicker is this though - it's a lot harder than folks realize putting that core of the pattern on their head and neck in the heat of the moment at long ranges. I think a lot of hunters who hit one that gets away (within ranges that meet those two standards), actually didn't put the core of the pattern on his head and neck, but were a victim of their own shooter's error. So that third standard - the hunter's ability to put the core of the pattern on the bird's head and neck - is also one that needs to be taken into careful consideration.

User avatar
gophert
Gobbler Nation
Gobbler Nation
Posts: 1446
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 9:14 am
Location: Middle TN
Contact:

Re: Is it consistent

Post by gophert » July 6th, 2017, 10:25 am

I totally dig the 9.5s in those smaller loads. I've loaded Leah's 1.25 oz shells for years with 9.5s that I got from Hal years ago. She absolutely hammered a bird at 54 steps and his head was jelly when we got up there. We finally ran out of them and I just load with 9s now, but I say all that to say those 9.5s will put a bird down for sure.

Post Reply

Return to “Handloading, Ammo & Patterns”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests