90/93

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Jbird22
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Re: 90/93

Post by Jbird22 »

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13762&p=149362&hilit=vp93#p149362

I cut mine with more cushion than shown in Shooter's pic in order to omit the 1/8" felt on top of the shot. It folds great and I just seal the crimp with clear fingernail polish. It ends up being the same OAL as 3" Fed HWT factory load. I shoot an 870 so no cycling issues for me.
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Re: 90/93

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I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
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Re: 90/93

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turkeyinstrut wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:00 pm I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
I can't responsibly answer that.
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Re: 90/93

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Iowahammer wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:11 pm Op your momma taught you not to buy the first thing you come across that resembles what you want I'd assume? Take that into consideration here. Look around before you buy what's already obsolete. Available Components that are frequently available are necessary.

Hammer
Just curious, what makes you consider it obsolete?
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Re: 90/93

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turkeyinstrut wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:00 pm I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
I shot a 1 5/8oz 2.75” load that was vp90 over 27 grains of lil gun. Patterned great at over 1100fps out of 24” M2. Thought it was greatest load ever, had it tested and it came back around 15.5k psi. I never had any problems or pressure signs, but was waaaay over pressure. I would imagine the ones you loaded like that are over as well.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Hoobilly »

Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:31 pm
Iowahammer wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:11 pm Op your momma taught you not to buy the first thing you come across that resembles what you want I'd assume? Take that into consideration here. Look around before you buy what's already obsolete. Available Components that are frequently available are necessary.

Hammer
Just curious, what makes you consider it obsolete?
he might be talking about the 93 wad not in stock at Precision etc

Shooter has them by the thousands..


and my way of thinking is wrong. Shorter shell length, pressure eases up some.
Don't start none, won't be none!

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Re: 90/93

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hoobilly wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:08 pm
Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:31 pm
Iowahammer wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:11 pm Op your momma taught you not to buy the first thing you come across that resembles what you want I'd assume? Take that into consideration here. Look around before you buy what's already obsolete. Available Components that are frequently available are necessary.

Hammer
Just curious, what makes you consider it obsolete?
he might be talking about the 93 wad not in stock at Precision etc

Shooter has them by the thousands..


and my way of thinking is wrong. Shorter shell length, pressure eases up some.
Perhaps, but like you said that's certainly not the case. I made sure I ordered enough from Shooter to last me a lifetime. After all, wads are the least expensive components to stockpile.
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Re: 90/93

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Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:45 pm
hoobilly wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:08 pm
Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:31 pm
Just curious, what makes you consider it obsolete?
he might be talking about the 93 wad not in stock at Precision etc

Shooter has them by the thousands..
Perhaps, but like you said that's certainly not the case. I made sure I ordered enough from Shooter to last me a lifetime. After all, wads are the least expensive components to stockpile.
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Re: 90/93

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I cut and leave half the cushion part of the 93 wad.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Turkinator »

Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:45 pm
hoobilly wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:08 pm
Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:31 pm
Just curious, what makes you consider it obsolete?
he might be talking about the 93 wad not in stock at Precision etc

Shooter has them by the thousands..


and my way of thinking is wrong. Shorter shell length, pressure eases up some.
Perhaps, but like you said that's certainly not the case. I made sure I ordered enough from Shooter to last me a lifetime. After all, wads are the least expensive components to stockpile.
Good to hear that Shooter has the 93s. I also stockpiled a lifetime supply!
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Re: 90/93

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Just got my lifetime supply from Shooter!


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Re: 90/93

Post by jryser »

Reloader wrote: June 13th, 2018, 12:00 pm There are a lot of good loads out there, some are easier to load than others.

Of my 1-5/8oz loads, the Lil Hammer is one of the easiest to load and components are readily available. I've tested and developed many loads and it patterns the best and most consistent for me. It gets very good feedback as well. Thor is the easiest load I have, but I like the LH better. That said, with a little choke tinkering Thor does about the same.

You kind of have to decide what maximum range you really need. If a fella truly never intends to shoot past 50yds, 1-1/4oz is more than enough. If you must go long, 1-5/8 is nice. Anything more is overkill bigtime plain and simple.
Where do you get the Lil Hammer recipe?
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Re: 90/93

Post by Spuriosity »

Don't shoot 20 ga, so not familiar with the 90/93 load. But the bottom line is, if you remove any cushion from a load relative to how it was pressure tested, pressure will increase. And if you add cushion, relative to how the load was tested, pressure will decrease.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Reloader »

hoobilly wrote: June 13th, 2018, 5:23 pm
el diablo wrote: June 13th, 2018, 10:02 am

Why not just shoot a 2.75" 1 5/8oz load? That would be easier than having to trim the hull and cut the wad just right. Also, if you cut the 93 too much, you are going to lose cushion and the pressures will rise.
are you sure about that?

Others might correct me if my thinking is wrong, but the sole purpose for the 93 is to keep lil gun from leaking. The cushion is only a filler.

I would think that the pressures from a longer cushion would increase pressure while shorter will decrease it.Since the cushion compresses over a longer point of time before actually pushing the shot forward, which has more burnt powder happening than if the cushion was cut off and as the powder ignites it starts pushing the wad and shot instantly.

may be totally wrong on this way of thinking
Cushion under the wad drastically reduces PSI FWIW. I've played with this a good bit over the years. Just a slight bit less cushion can have a huge impact. I've even taken loads and compressed the cushion by various amounts and it had a huge impact with crimped harder IE compressed slightly more. That's one reason I like making loads that have a definite bottom out where more crimp pressure doesn't compress anything in the column.
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Re: 90/93

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turkeyinstrut wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:00 pm I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
Yes, far greater. Take them apart and load them exactly how Tommy instructs. 2.67" total length(Crimped) will run in Benellis.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Reloader »

el diablo wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:40 pm
turkeyinstrut wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:00 pm I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
I shot a 1 5/8oz 2.75” load that was vp90 over 27 grains of lil gun. Patterned great at over 1100fps out of 24” M2. Thought it was greatest load ever, had it tested and it came back around 15.5k psi. I never had any problems or pressure signs, but was waaaay over pressure. I would imagine the ones you loaded like that are over as well.

I heard guys were shooting that load at 27.5 and warned it was way over. I sent it in at 27.5 and 26.0 and it came back 16.5kpsi and 15.5kpsi.

There are things you can change to make it work :D
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Re: 90/93

Post by Reloader »

jryser wrote: June 13th, 2018, 11:15 pm

Where do you get the Lil Hammer recipe?
I might know a fella :D
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Re: 90/93

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Reloader wrote: June 14th, 2018, 12:03 pm
turkeyinstrut wrote: June 13th, 2018, 9:00 pm I loaded up 10 of the 90/93's this spring to pattern but never got around to shooting them, I shoot a M2 and when I cut the cushion off the 93 wad I cut it right down flush with the top of the gas seal. My OAL ended up being 2.420 to 2.435 which should cycle fine in the Benelli, what I am wondering is by cutting all the cushion off is it going to jack the pressure beyond SAFE?
Yes, far greater. Take them apart and load them exactly how Tommy instructs. 2.67" total length(Crimped) will run in Benellis.
Thanks Reloader,

I will tear them down and salvage the shot. I may try loading a few by cutting the wad where Tommy instructed to do so and see if I can get them short enough to cycle. I am currently shooting Hal's Lil Zip load and am very pleased with it, but would like to try the 90/93 as I have heard nothing but good things about it. This is a sickness and I not sure that I will ever find a load that is "good enough" but it sure is fun trying. :D

One more question for you Reloader, does adding cushion under the shot also reduce pressures.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Reloader »

Yes, cushion under the shot lowers PSI as well. Even 1/8” felt can make a big difference in certain wads and powders.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Turkinator »

On a related note: with all the guys loading TSS and all the years we've been at it, I think we can declare it safe to do. Stay in guidelines established and you have nothing to worry about.. On any skeet field or sporting clays course you are liable to to see reloads that it only looks like luck is holding them together.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Turkinator »

Jbird22 wrote: June 13th, 2018, 8:23 pm viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13762&p=149362&hilit=vp93#p149362

I cut mine with more cushion than shown in Shooter's pic in order to omit the 1/8" felt on top of the shot. It folds great and I just seal the crimp with clear fingernail polish. It ends up being the same OAL as 3" Fed HWT factory load. I shoot an 870 so no cycling issues for me.
:thumbup:
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Re: 90/93

Post by AST »

Is rolling or fold crimping better. Or just personal preference on tss loads
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Re: 90/93

Post by Turkinator »

AST wrote: June 14th, 2018, 5:50 pm Is rolling or fold crimping better. Or just personal preference on tss loads
I fold crimp because I shoot a Benelli M2. Roll crimped shells are too long to feed from the magazine without trimming.
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Re: 90/93

Post by Jbird22 »

AST wrote: June 14th, 2018, 5:50 pm Is rolling or fold crimping better. Or just personal preference on tss loads
I have done both and personally prefer fold crimping. For me, it's just quicker and much easier since I only have a cordless drill (not a drill press) to roll crimp with. At the same time, my MEC 600 was given to me so I can't say I'd recommend purchasing one just for the sake of fold crimping TSS loads. The press itself won't aid in any other part of the loading process.
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Re: 90/93

Post by jryser »

Reloader wrote: June 14th, 2018, 12:10 pm
jryser wrote: June 13th, 2018, 11:15 pm

Where do you get the Lil Hammer recipe?
I might know a fella :D
A HA! Awesome. PM will be sent!
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