Yildiz410

Talk about 20, 16, & 28 gauge and .410 bore shotguns here.
reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » January 24th, 2018, 9:59 pm

I spent a lot of time and had many therioes thrown out the door trying to figure this out. I first blamed the pin.
Thought of ways to extend it by a mm on the back, then blamed my sight mount that is grazed and bolted in. Back then my thought was the spring was made to such exacting standards that most any home shop was out the question. The local gunsmith said he couldn't help me, though I acknowledge he's not the best or most adventurous. Maybe we can talk William at sumtoy into making us some?

I was talking with a fellow turkey hunter who operates Black Dot custom calls and happened to bring up the problem, he told me to start leaving it in fired position. So far, problem solved. I may just go shoot it this weekend to see, only shot it 3 times last year, all good. I think the spring will heal itself up given rest.

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » January 24th, 2018, 10:07 pm

But to the OP, call briley if you can stand the wait of turn around, they were eager to help if I sent it in. Pretty sure it was completely free of charge.

Oh just found an email exchange after I gave heck to the guy from briley. His boss emailed me if I remember but it took a while and he backed up what my buddy said.

Chris,

Sorry but at the request of Yildiz we do not sell any parts. I doubt that the firing pins are bad with less than 100 rounds fired but you never know. Might be the hammer springs have taken a set. The gun should not be stored with the hammers in the cocked position because it will cause spring problems. Send it in and we will make the necessary repairs.

Mike Guigliano
Manager - Gunsmithing Division
Briley Manufacturing
1230 Lumpkin Road
Houston, TX. 77043
Toll Free: 1-800-331-5718
Local: 713-932-6995

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » January 24th, 2018, 10:35 pm

Here is the spring in question if that helps.
Attachments
20180124_223115.jpg

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 12:43 am

Got my yildiz barrel back from sumtoy today. To say I was excited to shoot would be an understatement. After reinstalling barrel and stock I needed to sight in at 15 yards with some factory federal lead. I got 6 straight clicks before a boom. Very depressing. My tss handloads faired better but I'd say it took 25 trigger pulls to fire 8 shells! 2 weeks ago it shot flawlessly.

So I went to work on it. After trying everything in the book with to many failed experiments to mention I finally realized the problem only occuried with breech closed. As a last ditch effort I took the barrel bolt and screw loose that attached barrel to reciever and swapped sides. This loosened everything up and allowed for complete firing pin strikes. Pretty sure problem solved. If barrel is to tight it messes with breach opening trigger which has to move out of hammers way.

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GLS
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by GLS » February 27th, 2018, 5:14 am

Interesting mount for the FF. Did you make it? How does the tight barrel mess with the breech opening trigger (which also cocks the hammer)? Is the metal warping? Gil

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 7:28 am

Hey Gil, I cast the mount onto the rreciever using aluminum, then brazed a weaver rail on top. Didn't have patience to send it off and wanted to tap receiver which is aluminum instead of the steel barrel which requires a little more skill.

I will take pictures of the 2 parts that clash causing my problem. No doubt after some serious trial and error that this was the culprit in my situation. Pics to follow

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 7:55 am

The silver breech opening trigger is pushed foward by the internal hammer when you pull trigger. In my case that part was binding and not moving fully foward. I dont know for sure what it binded on but swapping the side that the barrel connecting bolt was installed loosened everything up.

It could be that the shiny part in top pic at bottom of barrel which holds breech shut....was misaligned.
Attachments
20180227_073010.jpg
20180227_073017.jpg

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GLS
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by GLS » February 27th, 2018, 11:59 am

Rem, that may explain why some folks cured ftf by slamming the barrels shut. Good to know. What we were diagnosing as weak hammer spring could have been what you report, especially if barrel was removed and reassembled. It's no easy task to take the center pin out. How do you do it? Gil

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 1:38 pm

I agree, my ftf started after I took gun apart first time. Then went away when I took apart again. Then started back when I got back from sumtoy and put back together again! Wish I'd had done a video showing what was happening.

I added washers to hammer spring last night and quickly realized it didn't solve my problem. So if washers won't solve it....a new spring won't solve it either.
I use a needle nose pliers with a hole drilled in middle that is same size as rod that guides spring. It allows you to put good pressure and get in and out. BE WARNED! You can lose an eye if you slip up on this step! That spring when compressed this way has some serious tension. Also be very careful reinstalling as you can easily bend that rod and make it shorter or break it in the process. I'll take pic of my pliers and post it. It helps if pliers are thin and hole is drilled towards mouth...this also makes it weaker so be cautious. I will say it was harder than I remembered it being.

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Also a good polishing or filling on the barrel part that touches the breech opening trigger might work...but I honestly don't know what direction to file or how much to remove where. It was so obvious when I took stock off and fired both in closed and open position. In open it worked flawless. In closed it just barely touched pin because that breech trigger wouldn't move when hammer moved...just to tight. But after firing you could push the trigger forward with pressure and it would go where it needed to be. I'll try my best to duplicate and post video

Can't wait to shoot about 50 Rounds to confirm it has solved my problem.

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Turkinator
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by Turkinator » February 27th, 2018, 3:42 pm

I just got my Yildiz 410 back from the gunsmith. He put a heavier hammer spring in it. I've shot it a bunch without a snap. He told me the hammer strikes were light.

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GLS
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by GLS » February 27th, 2018, 6:55 pm

Rem, a sticky and good photos of what you did, etc. would be great. The gun when it works as intended is a terrific TSS delivery system. I am a big fan of the gun. :thumbleft: Gil

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » February 27th, 2018, 7:20 pm

Shot mine today, 5 reloads with questionable primer sets and 5 tss handloads...no ftf. It really made my day. After seeing and "feeling" this gun out I really dont see how the hammer spring could become faulty after a few years or few hundred rounds. I think this is why briley doesnt send parts. They know its not the hammer spring at least majority of time and they make some good money swapping around a screw or polishing 2 pieces. If it is your hammer spring, a couple washers fix it easy I think.
I also believe washers or a heavy spring will make trigger pull weight MUCH worse.
Gil, your work with this gun has inspired so many. If I didn't have ftf when brand new I would have tricked it out years ago. They are indeed very interesting guns. Wish I'd have bought another when I had the chance.

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Re: Yildiz410

Post by rackmaster300 » March 1st, 2018, 5:19 pm

Rem and Gil, just got my .410 back from William and ran into the same problem. Had it misfire on me. I noticed when I slammed barrel shut, the barrel release trigger was the whole way in the front position. If I gently closed it, I could see it was binding and not returning to the front. I could physically push it front but something was binding internally.
I tried Rems way of switching pivot bolt sides but the head of the bolt would not fit in the other side. I ended up lightly filing the barrel release trigger and the part that it pushes against that locks barrel in place.(sorry, don't know technical names of these parts!). I did this with barrel pivot bolt not fully seated into the recessed hole.
This all helped until I went to re-install the barrel pivot bolt into the recessed hole. I noticed as soon as the head of the bolt started into the recessed part, it started to bind again. It was like the fit was too tight and forcing it in caused something to twist. I could tell it was just the smallest amount off so I filed the whole way around the head of the barrel pivot bolt being careful not to take enough to be noticeable once the bolt was back in the recessed hole.
I then installed it as it should be and everything works like a charm. My theory is, that head was just off enough that when it was forced in, it twisted the bolt to a position that pushed too hard on the barrel release trigger when closed. Can't say that's the cause of all of them but it's easy to check if when you close barrel the release trigger is all the way forward. If not, it's the same problem me and Reminex had.

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » March 1st, 2018, 8:21 pm

Awesome rackmaster! Boy that click on a gun you spent so much time and money on is a sick feeling. It's obviously not machine to very exacting standards but I'm glad more info is coming out so we can feel confident with them hunting.

rackmaster300
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by rackmaster300 » March 1st, 2018, 8:36 pm

What really sucks is that will always be in the back of my mind even if it fires 100 times in a row. I played with it for an hour after I worked on it and couldn't get it to duplicate what had been happening. I'll still be sure to check muzzle release trigger when I hunt to make sure it's completely forward every time.

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » March 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm

Yeah I think if you burn the correct image in your brain you'll know when it's wrong! I could also feel it was wrong just by playing with breech trigger when closed. Also just look at bright side, if it ftf you might be extending your season! Fooling him is the fun part anyway for me.

jasperjet
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by jasperjet » March 1st, 2018, 10:37 pm

I fired my yildiz 410 and wasn't satisfied with the pattern. Sent just the barrel to William and when I got it back It wouldn't fire, it would cock and the firing pin would move forward but not enough. So I noticed the cocking/break open lever wasn't in the full forward position. turns out the crossbolt pin can only go in one way. As soon as I reversed it all was well. So it appears the head of the crossboltpin binds one way and shoots the other. I was sure glad to discover that. Loves the 9's over 10"s with full length barrel

reminex
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by reminex » March 2nd, 2018, 12:22 pm

Sorry Briley we DIYers costing yall so much money. Haha

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Re: Yildiz410

Post by GLS » March 3rd, 2018, 6:34 pm

Rem has taught us all something: If the barrel is removed, the hinge pin must go in the same side or there is hell to pay. I have no idea why this is so, but having heard others correct the ftf by re-positioning the pin seems to me that it does make a difference. Has anyone measured the OD the length of the pin to see if it isn't or is uniform? The hinge pin is the through bolt which has a dummy slot on its outside head. My screw goes into the port or left side of the action. The other side is a slotted screw that fits inside the through bolt. It might even pay to insure the through bolt is registered in the same position by using a temporary mark on one side of the slot and noting where it was in relation to the action when it was removed. Thanks, Rem. Gil

rackmaster300
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by rackmaster300 » March 3rd, 2018, 7:21 pm

Actually, mine came with the hinge pin going in the right side if you're shooting. Came like that from factory and I tried Rems way of swapping sides but the hinge pin head wouldn't fit inside the recessed hole of the left side of gun at all. Switched it back to the right side and nothing binded until the head went into the recessed hole. The part I filed down was the head with the dummy slot. Something's off with that pin but not sure what the heck it is!

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howl
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by howl » March 3rd, 2018, 8:41 pm

Mine only goes in one way. How much you tighten it does have an effect on how things work. Tightening it too much causes the action cocking/opening lever to bind. Mine is none too tight. Action flops open. I've shot a lot more .22lr with a chamber adaptor than I have shotshells.

Flounder
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by Flounder » March 20th, 2018, 7:46 pm

Anybody followed up on this.
I have had the same problem with only 15 shots.
I just switched the safety to on, off then back to on and I it hasn't missed a beat.

KS
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by KS » March 21st, 2018, 8:38 am

how is the recoil on these little light guns. wanting something for my small 6 year old, but wondering if he'd be better off with a reduced recoil auto 20 or possibly a yildiz youth o/u 20

toasty
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Re: Yildiz410

Post by toasty » March 21st, 2018, 10:09 am

KS wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 8:38 am
how is the recoil on these little light guns. wanting something for my small 6 year old, but wondering if he'd be better off with a reduced recoil auto 20 or possibly a yildiz youth o/u 20
It does have some recoil. 2.5" 1/2oz shells are not bad, about like a 28ga AA load out of a 5.5lb gun. The 3" 11/16oz factory load had enough kick, I didn't let my younger kids shoot it. It felt like a 20ga steel load out of a semi auto to me. I had two of my kids shoot mine yesterday with 2.5" loads. My 8 year old loved it, recoil didn't bother him at all, he kept wanting to shoot it. My 11 year who weighs the same as the 8 year old did not like the recoil, however, said it was no worse than a youth turkey load that she has shot. After 3 shells, she was done. The best thing about this gun is both kids could hold the gun, aim it, and hit stationary clay pigeons at 25 yards on their own. Both need a shooting stick with my 28ga o/u to hold it up and aim it. That little gun was accurate, I hit 5/5 on 30yd flying clays with it before putting it away and counting it as a huge success.

I also had 1 light primer strike yesterday in about 25 rounds. I played around with it and I believe that when the action is put together, if the break trigger sear is not engaged enough, you get a light primer strike. This is surely a safety feature that will not allow a shell to be fired without the action being locked into place. The other interesting thing is that when it is going to have a light primer strike, the trigger is really heavy, like 3x as heavy as normal. Slamming it shut works well, but manually pushing the break action trigger forward also solves the issue. I will probably polish the two mating pieces to further reduce the chance of this happening, but not a huge issue.

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